Holocaust Denial on Trial, Trial Transcripts, Day 17: Electronic Edition

Pages 211 - 214 of 214

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 1 MR RAMPTON:     I think Professor Evans will be here on Thursday.
 2 MR JUSTICE GRAY:     Are you wanting to interpolate some witness
 3of your own before him?
 4 MR IRVING:     We have Dr John Fox.
 5 MR RAMPTON:     Whatever you like.
 6 MR IRVING:     I am only going to ask Mr Rampton whether he was
 7going to cross-examine me further and, if so, when?
 8 MR RAMPTON:     I will not only say when but I hope what, because
 9it is the last things I have to ask about. I was hoping
10to do it on Friday, so as to get it out of the way, but
11I am in other people's hands.
12 MR IRVING:     Can you say about how long you will be
13cross-examining?
14 MR RAMPTON:     I do not think it will take all that long.
15 MR JUSTICE GRAY:     What are the topics?
16 MR RAMPTON:     The topics are, well, there is the question of
17Mr Irving's knowledge of that Muller signal to the
18Einsatzgruppen. I do not accept his answer that he has
19not seen it before, and there is a reason for that which
20I shall not say what it is now, apart from the fact that
21it appears to have been in the public domain for nearly 20
22years.
23 MR IRVING:     I have been in the public domain for 62 years.
24 MR JUSTICE GRAY:     We are not going to have the
25cross-examination now.
26 MR RAMPTON:     That I think we have dealt with. So that has

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 1gone. There is Zamus report of 16th December 1942 which
 2appeared and then disappeared because your Lordship said
 3Mr Irving needed more time.
 4 MR IRVING:     Also you should reveal where it came from.
 5 MR RAMPTON:     That is happening and I hope that will be in place
 6by Friday. There is Anne Frank that I forgot about out of
 7Evans and also van Pelt, and I think I ought to ask a
 8couple of questions, it is quite short. Then there is,
 9again which I hope I can keep quite short, the question of
10Mr Irving's associates, if I may call them that.
11 MR JUSTICE GRAY:     Yes.
12 MR RAMPTON:     That will certainly be completed in a day or
13perhaps less.
14 MR JUSTICE GRAY:     My slight feeling, and it is up to Mr Irving
15in the end, well, I suppose it is up to me in the end, but
16I wonder whether it is right to interrupt his
17cross-examination ----
18 MR RAMPTON:     I agree.
19 MR JUSTICE GRAY:     --- of really your major witness,.
20 MR IRVING:     May I suggest that I bring Dr Fox on Thursday?
21 MR JUSTICE GRAY:     If you are going to do that bring him first
22off.
23 MR RAMPTON:     Can I say not, because I think I told your
24Lordship Professor Evans is in real difficulty on Friday.
25 MR JUSTICE GRAY:     Yes.
26 MR RAMPTON:     Which is why I am proposing -- if your Lordship

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 1wants to leave Friday blank I quite understand the reason
 2why, nothing personally, but from Mr Irving' point of
 3view, then he has three clear days to gather himself again
 4for a renewed assault on Professor Evans on Monday.
 5Alternatively Dr. Fox might come on Friday, but it seems a
 6bit of a ----
 7 MR JUSTICE GRAY:     That I would not have so much difficulty
 8with, because Fox, frankly, I do not quite know what he is
 9going to say, but he has not a major problem for Mr Irving
10in terms of preparation.
11 MR RAMPTON:     Absolutely certainly not, and none for me because
12I am not going to cross-examine him.
13 MR IRVING:     You do not what he is going to say yet.
14 MR RAMPTON:     Of course I do. I have read his witness
15statement.
16 MR JUSTICE GRAY:     So I have but I have forgotten what is in it.
17 MR RAMPTON:     Something about free speech I think.
18 MR JUSTICE GRAY:     Shall we just plan the timetable? On
19Thursday we will have Evans all day. On Friday we will
20Fox for as long as he takes. Then we will resume with
21Evans on Monday. We will have the cross-examination of
22yourself at a later date to be fixed.
23 MR RAMPTON:     That means only one more day and a tiny bit in
24court this week I think.
25 MR JUSTICE GRAY:     Which I think at this stage of the case is
26not such a bad thing.

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 1 MR IRVING:     Preparation of Evans is complicated by the fact
 2that I now have to shoe-horn the material which I have
 3prepared for Levin and Eatwell into the Evans
 4cross-examination.
 5 MR JUSTICE GRAY:     We are giving you a day tomorrow and then you
 6are going to have most of Friday.
 7 MR IRVING:     Very well.
 8 MR JUSTICE GRAY:     Are you happy with that because tell me if
 9you are not?
10 MR IRVING:     So Fox on Thursday?
11 MR JUSTICE GRAY:     Fox on Friday morning.
12 MR RAMPTON:     If he can manage it.
13 MR JUSTICE GRAY:     Tell me if it turns out to create any
14problems for you.
15 MR RAMPTON:     We do not mind, my Lord. If Mr Irving would
16rather have Dr Fox here on Thursday we do not mind.
17 MR IRVING:     No.
18 MR JUSTICE GRAY:     I think it is quite a good idea to have him
19on Friday. So we are not sitting tomorrow but we are
20sitting on Thursday.
21 (The court adjourned until Thursday, 19th February 2000)
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