Holocaust Denial on Trial, Trial Transcripts, Day 2: Electronic Edition

Pages 186 - 189 of 189

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 1 A. [Mr Irving]     Yes
 2 Q. [Mr Rampton]     Instead of Jews in general
 3 A. [Mr Irving]     Yes
 4 Q. [Mr Rampton]     Can you first of all explain why it was that in the 1977
 5edition this passage referred to Jews in general
 6 A. [Mr Irving]     It was a silly misreading of the word. If I show you the
 7actual handwriting ---
 8 Q. [Mr Rampton]     Yes, it is printed in the book, is it not
 9 MR JUSTICE GRAY:      I think you said you misread, you could not
10read the handwriting of Himmler
11 A. [Mr Irving]     Perhaps I would like to show to his Lordship what the
12handwriting of Heydrich Himmler looks like
13 MR RAMPTON:      Your Lordship will find it in this ---
14 A. [Mr Irving]     I have a reasonable facsimile of the original here. He
15wrote a particularly nasty form Gothic spiky handwriting
16which modern Germans cannot read either. You could show
17that document to several Germans in this room, unless they
18were the older generation, they would not be able to read
19it. It is pretty horrific. I admit I made a mistake in
20the transcription. I was paying more attention to the
21position of the full stops in the lines which are quite
23 MR RAMPTON:      Yes. I have it somewhere here. You actually
24printed a facsimile of that page in both the editions, did
25you not
26 MR JUSTICE GRAY:      It is in the following page 506

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 1 A. [Mr Irving]     It would be remarkable if when one transcribes a lot of
 2that handwriting one does not occasionally miss out a
 3letter E or something like that.
 4 MR RAMPTON:      When printing that as a facsimile in your editions
 5Hitler's War, you would not expect your ordinary English
 6reader to be able to decipher what it said
 7 A. [Mr Irving]     I would be very surprised if they could decipher that
 8 Q. [Mr Rampton]     Even if they knew German
 9 A. [Mr Irving]     Older generation Germans can read that, prewar
11 Q. [Mr Rampton]     But your ordinary English reader, these books are
12published primarily in English, are they not
13 A. [Mr Irving]     No. My books are published in every language in the
15 Q. [Mr Rampton]     I know, but are they written in English originally
16 A. [Mr Irving]     This one was, yes. I have written books in German too
17 Q. [Mr Rampton]     As you fairly concede even a modern German might struggle
18with that unless they had the old handwriting
19 A. [Mr Irving]     The point I am trying to make is that this is not
20manipulation on my part. It is not manipulation or
21distortion. It is a traffic accident, shall we say
22 Q. [Mr Rampton]     I have to disagree with you. I do not have any training
23of the German language. I have relatively poor eyesight.
24I look at the word on the page and it quite plainly does
25not have an E on the end of it, does it
26 A. [Mr Irving]     No

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 1 Q. [Mr Rampton]     It is perfectly clear
 2 A. [Mr Irving]     I now see that, yes
 3 Q. [Mr Rampton]     Why did you put an E on it? Were you in a terrible hurry
 4or very tired or something when you wrote this
 5 A. [Mr Irving]     You are asking me to recall. This was actually written in
 61970. We are looking at something 30 years ago you and
 7you are asking me why I had an E on the end of a word
 8which I wrote 30 years ago
 9 Q. [Mr Rampton]     I will tell you why I am suggesting it was deliberate,
10Mr Irving, for a number of reasons which are cumulative,
11but one which is very closely related. There are two
12closely related reasons. The first we are coming back to
13in a moment which is the way you have handled he Bruns
14testimony, but the other is in relation to the entry for
15the following day, 1st December 1941, where for some
16reason best known to yourself, and of course we shall need
17to hear your explanation, you translate the words
18"[German] SS" as Jews
19 A. [Mr Irving]     No.
20 Q. [Mr Rampton]     That cannot be a misreading, can it
21 A. [Mr Irving]     I misread the word "harbun" for "uden" and I have it here
22in front of me and I will show that to his Lordship
23 Q. [Mr Rampton]     What have you got in front of you
24 A. [Mr Irving]     Himmler's diary, the actual handwritten page
25 Q. [Mr Rampton]     We have not got that. We would like to see it. May we
26see it

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 1 A. [Mr Irving]     Had I known you were going to attach importance to I would
 2have provided you with any number of copies
 3 Q. [Mr Rampton]     You would have heard in my opening speech that I attach
 4some importance to it
 5 A. [Mr Irving]     I am terribly sorry, but I had actually prepared a dozen
 6facsimiles of this to bring in tomorrow in a bundle
 7 Q. [Mr Rampton]     In fairness to you and perhaps to me we should leave it
 8where it is until we get the facsimile
 9 A. [Mr Irving]     Yes. I did envisage that I would have the running of this
10and that we would be looking at my bundle of stuff
12 Q. [Mr Rampton]     The running of what, your cross-examination
13 A. [Mr Irving]     I had not ---
14 Q. [Mr Rampton]     Shall I sit down
15 A. [Mr Irving]     --- envisaged that I would envisioned I would be standing
16up for cross-examination today. Had I known that I would
17not have worked to 6 o'clock this morning preparing
19 MR JUSTICE GRAY:      You can blame me for that
20 MR RAMPTON:      That said, my Lord and since he was up until 6
21o'clock ---
22 MR JUSTICE GRAY:     ! I agree with what you are about to say.
23I think you have had quite a long day. 10.30 tomorrow
25 (The court adjourned until the following day)

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