Holocaust Denial on Trial, Trial Transcripts, Day 28: Electronic Edition

Pages 201 - 204 of 204

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    OK. If you turn the page, please, do you see I describe
 2 A. [Dr Hajo Funke]     Yes.
 3 Q. [Mr Irving]     They are not leading Nazis, are they?
 4 A. [Dr Hajo Funke]     No, no.
 5 Q. [Mr Irving]     And the great ----
 6 A. [Dr Hajo Funke]     Although some of them I partially ----
 7 MR JUSTICE GRAY:     Not leading Nazis, the answer is no?
 8 A. [Dr Hajo Funke]     Not leading Nazis, right. Excuse me.
 9 MR IRVING:     The final sentence of the letter above the
10signature, I say: "Of course, as always at DVU functions,
11I am not going to mention the Jews or the concentration or
12extermination camps with one word"?
13 A. [Dr Hajo Funke]     Yes.
14 Q. [Mr Irving]     Then the final sentence of the PS is: "I will most
15painfully keep within the laws of Germany, the Federal
17 A. [Dr Hajo Funke]     Yes.
18 Q. [Mr Irving]     Yes?
19 A. [Dr Hajo Funke]     Yes.
20 Q. [Mr Irving]     On the general matter, the proposition raised by
21Mr Rampton, that it is right-wingest to look to reunify
22Germany and all the rest of the things that he said, can
23I remind you of what the German constitution says every
24German citizen is beholden to do? Do you know the passage
25I am referring to?
26 A. [Dr Hajo Funke]     Tell me. I have the constitution here. What do you

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 2 MR JUSTICE GRAY:     No, I do not think we need to...
 3 MR IRVING:     Is not every German citizen held to strive for the
 4reunification of the German territories?
 5 MR JUSTICE GRAY:     I think you are not doing justice to
 6Mr Rampton's point. He was not just talking about
 7the reunification of Germany.
 8 MR IRVING:     I was once again dealing with it piecemeal.
 9 MR JUSTICE GRAY:     I know it is difficult.
10 MR IRVING:     And I am sorry that that was not appreciated.
11 THE WITNESS:     It never meant unification includes parts of
12Poland, it never meant.
13 MR IRVING:     Thank you very much, Professor.
14 MR JUSTICE GRAY:     Thank you. Professor Funke, that completes
15your evidence. Thank you very much.
16 < (The witness withdrew)
17 MR JUSTICE GRAY:     Mr Rampton and Mr Irving, can I just mention
18that, in addition to the remaining cross-examination,
19there are several other outstanding things. I am sure you
20have them in mind. There is an argument about whether the
21expert reports of Eatwell and Levin can go in.
22 MR RAMPTON:     No, I do not want them.
23 MR IRVING:     My Lord, I was about to make the opposite
25 MR RAMPTON:     I do not mind. I do not want them.
26 MR IRVING:     My friend said that if Mr Rampton had argued on the

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 1basis of those authorities that he was entitled to, then
 2who were we to argue against him?
 3 MR JUSTICE GRAY:     That is kind, but if he does not want to,
 4then the question ends. I have feeling there are some
 5loose ends on Civil Evidence Act Notices in relation to
 7 MR RAMPTON:     No, I do not think so. I think all the Moscow
 8evidence I need has come from Mr Irving actually probably.
 9 MR JUSTICE GRAY:     Good.
10 MR RAMPTON:     It is only the American factual witnesses and they
11are in proper condition because they have had Civil
12Evidence Act Notices.
13 MR JUSTICE GRAY:     We need to at any rate identify those
14and ----
15 MR RAMPTON:     I need them for the underlying material in due
16course, but whether I do any cross-examination is a
17different matter.
18 MR IRVING:     At what stage can I make submissions on the
19American factual witnesses, my Lord?
20 MR JUSTICE GRAY:     You do not, I think, have much of a legal
21submission you could make. They are overseas. You have
22had a notice, but I am not saying do not, but at the
23moment I do not quite see how you can keep those
24statements out.
25 MR RAMPTON:     What Mr Irving is entitled to ----
26 MR IRVING:     I do not want to keep the statements out, but I

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 1want to make certain representations about the quality of
 2their evidence, their criminal records and the rest of it.
 3 MR JUSTICE GRAY:     That, I think, is a matter for you to deal
 4with in your evidence. It is not a ground for objecting
 5to the statements going in under the Act.
 6 MR IRVING:     I mean I wanted to put it in by way of submission.
 7That is what I suppose I was trying to say.
 8 MR JUSTICE GRAY:     I will not prevent you doing that, whatever
 9the form is.
10 MR RAMPTON:     That is what I was going to say. There is a
11provision that allows where a witness is not being called
12under the Civil Evidence Act for what one might call
13rebuttal material to be put in and, of course, and comment
14that can be made about the internal condition ----
15 MR JUSTICE GRAY:     The reliability of the evidence.
16 MR RAMPTON:     Exactly.
17 MR JUSTICE GRAY:     Quite. Good. So 10.30 tomorrow morning.
18 (The court adjourned until the following day)

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