Holocaust Denial on Trial, Trial Transcripts, Day 27: Electronic Edition

Pages 6 - 10 of 183

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    What I propose to do is to ask Professor Funke to
 1us, for example, and the extent of them. That I hope is a
 2short cut through what is a very voluminous and in some
 3senses rather intricate report. Then I propose to show
 4the videos which, as far as possible, we have stripped of
 5editorial content. Most of them simply show people
 6speaking, including, to a large extent, Mr Irving himself
 7on a number ----
 8 MR JUSTICE GRAY:     Well, I am not a jury and I am quite capable,
 9I hope, sorting out the wheat from the chaff.
10 MR RAMPTON:      Precisely -- on a limited number of occasions in
11Germany in the 1990s. What Professor Funke will do is to
12identify Mr Irving's fellow travellers, if I can call them
14 MR JUSTICE GRAY:     Will he also identify in advance what film is
15going to be shown so that, if Mr Irving has an objection,
16he can make it.
17 MR RAMPTON:     He or I or Miss Rogers will do that.
18 MR JUSTICE GRAY:     How long is the video going to take?
19 MR RAMPTON:     They can be very short. One of them is really
20quite long, but I do not believe it needs to have the
21whole of it shown. Most of them are really quite short.
22One is about 10 seconds.
23 MR JUSTICE GRAY:     The total?
24 MR RAMPTON:     Total about an hour.
25 MR RAMPTON:     The long one I spoke of is about 70 minutes, but
26there is an awful lot of, if I may use the word, ranting,

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 1not by Mr Irving alone, in the course of that video and
 2one does not want to see the whole of it, necessarily.
 3One merely needs to whiz forwards so that Professor Funke
 4can say who the people are. That is 70 minutes but one
 5does not need to watch the whole of it. The rest in total
 6are about 45 minutes. If I said an hour for the videos
 7and about three quarters of an hour in preparation, that
 8will then set the scene for cross-examination.
 9 MR IRVING:     My Lord, if it is purely, as I understand it, what
10Muller would have called visual materials, then I have no
11objection to them being shown. But if in any attention is
12paid to the content of what is alleged to be said, or the
13extracts taken, then of course I would want advance notice
14of them.
15 MR JUSTICE GRAY:     Let us leave it like this. You are going to
16get some idea from Mr Funke's evidence what these clips
17are going to be. If you want to raise an objection when
18you know what you are going to be presented with, then do
19so. Shall we leave it like that?
20 MR RAMPTON:     I will tell Mr Irving now what the meetings are.
21There is one on at Agonou in Azas on 12th November 1989
22organised by Mr Christophersen. There is a meeting in
23Munich under the legend or heading "Vaheit macht Frey" on
2421st April 1990. There is a meeting at Passau under the
25aegis of the DVU and Mr Gerhard Frey on 16th February
261991. There is what is called the Leuchter Congress,

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 1which is the long tape, on 23rd March 1991, again in
 2Munich, and that is one in which a number of names which
 3will be familiar to your Lordship, if not now, certainly
 4by end of this exercise, feature. Then finally there is
 5what is, in some ways we would suppose, perhaps the most
 6striking, which is an outdoor rally in a place called
 7Halle in what used to be East Germany but by 9th November
 81991 was in the reunited Germany.
 9 MR JUSTICE GRAY:     That is very helpful. Thank you very much.
10 MR IRVING:     I think I will only have problems with the Halle
11one because that particular piece of film has been very
12heavily chopped around, cutting out very important parts
13of what I said. So, as I said before, if this is purely a
14rogues gallery, I have no objection to the court being
15shown it at this stage.
16 MR JUSTICE GRAY:     Have we got a transcript of what you said at
18 MR IRVING:     We have made a transcript of as much as is on the
19film as far as we possibly can.
20 MR JUSTICE GRAY:     Just what is on the film? That is your
22 MR RAMPTON:     I have not got that.
23 MR IRVING:     It has been on my website for the last year.
24 MR RAMPTON:     That is a peculiar way of making disclosure. Oh,
25it is not.
26 MR JUSTICE GRAY:     It has probably been disclosed as well.

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 1Anyway, that is the one you may be objecting to?
 2 MR IRVING:     Purely to the text of the film rather than the
 3rogues gallery pictures of these alleged sleezy friends of
 5 MR JUSTICE GRAY:     Right.
 6 MR RAMPTON:     Now the Professor needs to be sworn.
 7 < Professor Funke, affirmed.
 8 < Examined by Mr Rampton QC
 9 MR JUSTICE GRAY:     Herr Funke, do sit down.
10 MR RAMPTON:     Professor Funke, have you made a report for the
11purposes of this case?
12 A. [Dr Hajo Funke]     Yes, I did.
13 Q. [Mr Rampton]     So far as it contains statements of fact, are you
14satisfied that they are as true as they can be?
15 A. [Dr Hajo Funke]     I think so.
16 Q. [Mr Rampton]     And, so far as they contain expressions of opinion, are
17you satisfied that those opinions are fair?
18 A. [Dr Hajo Funke]     I think so.
19 Q. [Mr Rampton]     My Lord, Professor Funke's English is not quite as good as
20Dr Longerich's was. The subject with which he is dealing
21is in some senses quite subtle and in other senses quite
22technical. I am going to invite him at any stage, if he
23feels uncomfortable in English, to go into German. He
24must go slowly because otherwise the interpreter will not
25be able to keep up.
26 MR JUSTICE GRAY:     Yes.

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 1 MR JUSTICE GRAY:     If you can manage in English, Professor, it
 2makes life easier.
 3 A. [Dr Hajo Funke]     I try my best.
 4 MR JUSTICE GRAY:     And a bit quicker but, if you feel
 5difficulties, then have resort to the interpreter.
 6 A. [Dr Hajo Funke]     Thank you.
 7 MR RAMPTON:     Professor Funke, could you please be given your
 8report? Have you got your report there?
 9 A. [Dr Hajo Funke]     Yes.
10 Q. [Mr Rampton]     At the back of your report there are two appendices.
11 A. [Dr Hajo Funke]     Yes.
12 Q. [Mr Rampton]     Could you go to the appendix two, please?
13 A. [Dr Hajo Funke]     Yes.
14 Q. [Mr Rampton]     Which you have entitled "Biographies". Have you got the
15appendix there?
16 A. [Dr Hajo Funke]     Yes.
17 Q. [Mr Rampton]     We do not need the actual report, I hope, at all, at any
18rate as far as I am concerned. You heard what I said to
19his Lordship before you were sworn to give evidence, that
20I am going to go through some of the names in this
21appendix and ask you who they are and what they stand
22for, what their ideologies and policies are. Do you
23remember my saying that?
24 A. [Dr Hajo Funke]     Yes.
25 Q. [Mr Rampton]     I am going also to ask you in respect of each person
26whether you are able to give us in summary form an account

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