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Holocaust Denial on Trial, Trial Transcripts, Day 12: Electronic Edition

Pages 151 - 154 of 154

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    I agree. It is a defeated man about to be hanged, who
 1even ordered it, in his fanaticism against the Jews. What
 2kind of evidence is that? Supposition.
 3 Q. [Mr Rampton]     It is just as good evidence as the bit that you did
 4quote.
 5 A. [Mr Irving]     Yes. They are both equally bad.
 6 Q. [Mr Rampton]     So why quote one bad bit and leave off the other bad bit
 7which supplies the balance?
 8 A. [Mr Irving]     Well, it does not just supply the balance. It also makes
 9the passage twice as long and it is bad enough quoting one
10supposition without putting in two suppositions, the
11second of which is really a piece of resigned wish-wash by
12the man who says, well, anyway, who knows? Who knows?
13I suppose, if you read his testament, he does look like a
14different man.
15 Q. [Mr Rampton]     You quoted it as ever, all these little or big, all these
16alterations, suppressions, transfers, and so on that over
17the weeks we hope we have demonstrated, all these
18adjustments which you make to the evidence, all tend in
19one direction, Mr Irving. That is to say, the exoneration
20of Adolf Hitler.
21 A. [Mr Irving]     I totally disagree. You have no idea what other passages
22I cut out of documents because they were too long. If a
23document is too long, I will cut it, regardless of what
24the content is, and sometimes I cut matters which lean one
25way, sometimes I cut matters which lean the other way, and
26this was a typical piece which cries out to be cut and it

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 1got cut. It was chopped. I know that my opponents clutch
 2at these sentences like drowning men in the hope that this
 3may save them. I think, if this is the best they can do,
 4then it is pathetic.
 5 Q. [Mr Rampton]     I told you a long time ago, Mr Irving, that I was not
 6pinning my hopes on any one document, any one little error
 7by you, because of course errors can go in any direction.
 8I am pinning my case on some very big adjustments and some
 9little ones, which converge to the same conclusion.
10Whenever there is something adverse to Hitler, it is
11jettisoned.
12 A. [Mr Irving]     Well, I look forward to hearing things you are pinning
13your hopes on.
14 Q. [Mr Rampton]     You have heard most of them already, I think.
15 A. [Mr Irving]     Oh, gosh!
16 Q. [Mr Rampton]     Then I will be about the same business, Mr Irving, when we
17get to Dresden tomorrow.
18 MR JUSTICE GRAY:     Would you, for my benefit, Mr Rampton, let me
19know if there are any of the points in your Defendants'
20summary of case which ----
21 MR RAMPTON:     Yes, I will.
22 MR JUSTICE GRAY:     --- you are not pursuing and then I can ----
23 MR RAMPTON:     The Roman Jews your Lordship can ----
24 MR JUSTICE GRAY:     Yes.
25 MR RAMPTON:     I think the only other thing at the moment that
26I have not finally -- because I need to take my orders --

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 1decided about is the aftermath of Reichskristallnacht.
 2There may be some little pieces from the Adjutants that
 3I will use, there may be not, but as soon as we have made
 4a decision, we will let you know.
 5 MR JUSTICE GRAY:     And Madame Valliant-Couturier -- have we had
 6her?
 7 MR RAMPTON:     We have had her, yes.
 8 A. [Mr Irving]     She was the one with the beating machine.
 9 MR JUSTICE GRAY:     Yes. So, I do not myself see any point in
10just reading Civil Evidence Act Notices just for the sake
11of it. If they arise in connection with the point we are
12happening to deal with, then, by all means, let us see
13them, but none, I think really arise on the topics we have
14been dealing with today, do they?
15 A. [Mr Irving]     Can I ask, will you be calling the Russians or?
16 MR RAMPTON:     I have not made a final decision about that yet,
17Mr Irving. I think the probability is not, no. I do not
18want to waste the court's time and my client's money.
19 A. [Mr Irving]     Well, what is decided? Because, obviously, I have to do a
20great deal of preparation for the cross-examination of
21these witness, and it would be nice to know sometime
22ahead.
23 MR RAMPTON:     Yes, no, I promise you, I have been quite good
24about that, I think, my Lord. As soon as I have made a
25final decision that I am not going to, I will let you
26know.

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 1 A. [Mr Irving]     Well, we are very well prepared for Professor Terassof.
 2We were hoping he was going to bring the glass plates with
 3him.
 4 MR JUSTICE GRAY:     Right, well, do not think I need listen to
 5this debate. But, obviously, it is right that Mr Irving
 6should have ample opportunity of anything that is not
 7being pursued, that is not being called, because he has a
 8lot on his plate anyway and ----
 9 MR RAMPTON:     I know.
10 A. [Mr Irving]     Time is a very scarce commodity for me.
11 MR RAMPTON:     I am well conscious of that.
12 MR JUSTICE GRAY:     So 10.30 tomorrow.
13 < (The witness stood down)
14(Court adjourned until the following day)
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