Irving v. Lipstadt


Holocaust Denial on Trial, Trial Transcripts, Day 29: Electronic Edition

Pages 66 - 70 of 186

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 1 Q. [Mr Rampton]     "I had one of the crack pots informing the Australians
 2loudly that Rupert Murdoch is obviously a secret Jew.
 3Aargh! I shall set out early for Key West. That is the
 4end of this mini book I am speaking to".
 5 A. [Mr Irving]     Yes.
 6 Q. [Mr Rampton]     So there were a lot of Nazi-looking types?
 7 A. [Mr Irving]     Nazi crack pots, yes.
 8 Q. [Mr Rampton]     Nazi-looking types.
 9 A. [Mr Irving]     "Nazi crack pots" are the words I use.
10 Q. [Mr Rampton]     Nazi-looking types, Mr Irving. You did not like that
11because you thought that that appearance could be
12exploited against you by the television crew.
13 A. [Mr Irving]     I did not like it because that is not my chosen company.
14I cannot prevent -- it is a free world, particularly in
15the United States where they believe in the freedom of
16speech -- I cannot stop people wearing what they want;
17I cannot stop people cutting their hair the way they want
18to; I cannot stop people coming into a public meeting, but
19I express my obvious displeasure at it.
20 Q. [Mr Rampton]     A bit like those nice friendly young men we saw in the
21video tape of Halle in 1991. It is nothing to do with;
22you cannot help it if Nazi, Neo-Nazi ----
23 A. [Mr Irving]     Is it the ones waiving the red flags or their opponent?
24 Q. [Mr Rampton]     No, the red flags were not your opponents. Professor
25Funke told you clearly that was one sections of the
26neo-Nazi movement in Germany.

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 1 A. [Mr Irving]     That is why there is a long line of police holding them
 3 Q. [Mr Rampton]     Mr Irving, can we now look at page 14. This is you at the
 4what I call the National Alliance event in 1998, two years
 6 A. [Mr Irving]     You call it the National Alliance event?
 7 Q. [Mr Rampton]     Oh, there is no question.
 8 MR JUSTICE GRAY:     The fact is that they there were National
 9Alliance events, so you were wrong to suggest that I was
10guilty of a slip of the tongue. You may be whether you
11knew about it knew that that was the organisation.
12 A. [Mr Irving]     This is 1998, my Lord, and I held up to your Lordship the
13invitation which has no reference whatsoever on it to
14National Alliance, no logo, no inverted CND sign, just a
16 MR JUSTICE GRAY:     Wait for the question.
17 MR RAMPTON:     Let us look at the diary entry at the bottom of
18the page, shall we Mr Irving: "July 25th 1998. Tampa
19Florida", again. Then there is a square bracket with
20three dots in it. I am coming back to that, Mr Irving.
21 A. [Mr Irving]     Yes.
22 Q. [Mr Rampton]     "5 p.m. Over to Bess Western. Good function at 7 p.m.
23About a 100 there. Good book sales". Vincent Breeding,
24remember him from 1996?
25 A. [Mr Irving]     Yes, he learned his lesson from my lecture.
26 Q. [Mr Rampton]     He is the National Alliance organiser, is he not?

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 1 A. [Mr Irving]     That I do not know. I am sorry, that I did not know, let
 2me correct that.
 3 Q. [Mr Rampton]     "Better behaved this time. His young men were dressed in
 4suits or blazers, standing impassively at the corners. No
 5skinheads, neo-Nazis, thugs or jack boots in evidence. No
 6doubt, the press will tell their readers otherwise". What
 7you worried about, Mr Irving, is not the presence of
 8neo-Nazis. You are worried about the dent in your public
 9image, the public knowledge of the presence of neo-Nazis
10will make, are you not?
11 A. [Mr Irving]     No, I am worried about the press lying. I have seen press
12reports in this courtroom saying the courtroom is filled
13with skinheads in the audience, and I do not think any of
14us have ever seen that. That is what has been in the
15press reporting around the world on this particular trial,
16that my skinhead supporters are packing the benches here.
17I am very familiar with this kind of press reporting.
18 Q. [Mr Rampton]     Mr Irving, I said I would come back to look at that
19ellipsis in square brackets we find in that diary again.
20 A. [Mr Irving]     Yes.
21 Q. [Mr Rampton]     I would like you to look at a couple of documents,
22please. This is also taken, partly from a discovery and
23partly from a document which you produced in court.
24Mr Irving, you said repeatedly in this court, when
25cross-examining my expert witnesses, that you have
26disclosed the whole of your diaries.

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 1 A. [Mr Irving]     On disk, yes.
 2 Q. [Mr Rampton]     Yes.
 3 A. [Mr Irving]     You have received them on disk.
 4 Q. [Mr Rampton]     If you look at the first of these documents ----
 5 A. [Mr Irving]     Let me just qualify that, please. I disclosed all of
 6those that were discoverable. I may be wrong but my
 7belief is that the diaries were discoverable up the time
 8the writ was served. Am I right, my Lord?
 9 Q. [Mr Rampton]     Oh, yes.
10 A. [Mr Irving]     And when was the writ served, September 1996?
11 Q. [Mr Rampton]     Look at the entry for 2nd June 1998.
12 A. [Mr Irving]     Which is after the writ was served.
13 Q. [Mr Rampton]     That depends, Mr Irving. Your analysis of law is a little
15 A. [Mr Irving]     Perhaps we ought to ----
16 Q. [Mr Rampton]     Discoverability depends not on the date of the writ; it
17depends upon, subject to legal professional privilege,
19 A. [Mr Irving]     Perhaps his Lordship can lecture me on this point, but you
20ask me whether I had disclosed everything that was -- you
21put to me the sentence that I had withheld nothing ----
22 MR JUSTICE GRAY:     Well, come on, let us not waste time on
23this. It is quite obvious that you disclosed something in
24relation to June 2nd 1998 ----
25 A. [Mr Irving]     Yes.
26 MR RAMPTON:     Yes, and now would you look at the second sheet,

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 1which is what you produced in court.
 2 MR JUSTICE GRAY:     --- and that is after the writ. The point
 3is that there is an ellipse in what you disclosed, as I
 4understand it.
 5 A. [Mr Irving]     Yes.
 6 MR RAMPTON:     If you look at the second two pages of that little
 7clip -- it is two and a half pages, this is something you
 8wanted to use in court so you produced it for our
 9edification during the course of this trial.
10 A. [Mr Irving]     No, I did not. Which one?
11 Q. [Mr Rampton]     The large three-page document.
12 A. [Mr Irving]     Yes.
13 Q. [Mr Rampton]     Headed "June 2nd 1998, Chicago Illinois".
14 A. [Mr Irving]     No, you asked me for the summary of the Himmler letters to
15his mistress, and I have gave that entire summary, that
16entire day's entry in my diary.
17 Q. [Mr Rampton]     That is an entire entry in your diary?
18 A. [Mr Irving]     Yes.
19 Q. [Mr Rampton]     So, it is not right to say that we have had the whole of
20your diaries, is it? Look at the difference in length.
21This is four lines long and this is two and a half pages.
22 A. [Mr Irving]     Perhaps we should have a lesson from his Lordship about
23what is discoverable and what is not.
24 MR JUSTICE GRAY:     Let me take it in the sequence which I
25understand it to be in.
26 A. [Mr Irving]     The writ was served in September 1996.

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