Irving v. Lipstadt


Holocaust Denial on Trial, Trial Transcripts, Day 29: Electronic Edition

Pages 56 - 60 of 186

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    It is conflating different meetings, if I can use that
 1National Alliance meeting.
 2 Q. [Mr Rampton]     We will just have a look at paragraph 14, if we may?
 3"Inside the room there was a table set up with
 4Mr Irving's books and copies of this latest newsletter.
 5Across the room there was" ----
 6 A. [Mr Irving]     "Across the room".
 7 Q. [Mr Rampton]     What?
 8 A. [Mr Irving]     "Across the room", in other words, nowhere near me.
 9 Q. [Mr Rampton]     How big was the room, Mr Irving?
10 A. [Mr Irving]     About twice as big as this.
11 Q. [Mr Rampton]     "Across the room there was a table set up for the National
12Alliance with books, fliers and cassette tapes. I picked
13up a selection of the material on offer. This material is
14at appendix pages 11 to 106", and so on and so forth,
15"including a flier advertising Mr Irving's books, a
16handwritten photocopied flier advertising Mr Irving's next
17lecture and a publication entitled 'David Irving's Action
18Report dated 20th July 1998'."
19     Now, Mr Irving, can we have just a quick look at
20the policy document?
21 A. [Mr Irving]     Well, I will just draw your attention once more to the
22page before it, page 1, which makes no mention whatsoever
23to this being a National Alliance function. Do you accept
25 Q. [Mr Rampton]     I accept it does not say it. I certainly do not accept
26that you did not know that it was. That is quite

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 2 A. [Mr Irving]     Well, if it was a National Alliance function, then
 3why would it not have said so on the actual flier?
 4 Q. [Mr Rampton]     Perhaps because the National Alliance are slightly nervous
 5about making too much publicity for themselves outside the
 6magic circle?
 7 A. [Mr Irving]     Your own witness said there was no evidence of it being a
 8National Alliance meeting.
 9 MR JUSTICE GRAY:     You have made that point; I have taken it on
11 A. [Mr Irving]     So what possible relevance, whatever leaflet was on the
12table 100 feet away from me ----
13 MR JUSTICE GRAY:     I am bound to say I regard it as being
14relevant to know what sort of an organization it is that
15you have addressed on three occasions?
16 A. [Mr Irving]     My Lord, I object to the suggestion that I was addressing
17an organization. I was addressing my people who had come
18from all over Northern Florida to hear me speak at a
19function organized by this gentleman. I am sure it was a
20slip of the tongue, but I would hate it to go on the
21record unchallenged.
22 MR RAMPTON:     Inside the front cover, "What is the National
23Alliance?" we read this: "Building a new White world", do
24we not?
25 A. [Mr Irving]     What are we looking at?
26 MR JUSTICE GRAY:     Headline.

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 1 MR RAMPTON:     "Building a new White world".
 2 A. [Mr Irving]     80?
 3 MR JUSTICE GRAY:     Oh, sorry. I think it is called C1, tab 2,
 4page either 3 or 80, according to your preference.
 5 MR RAMPTON:     We notice, as I said a moment ago, the date of
 6this document is 1993, so it was written before your visit
 7to Cleveland in 1995, your visit to Tampa in 1995 and your
 8visit to Tampa in 1998?
 9 A. [Mr Irving]     It is another lie, Mr Rampton, I am afraid. Look at page
109 -- I am sorry, page 86. Top left-hand corner of the
11box. Do you see some figures there?
12 Q. [Mr Rampton]     Yes, yes, Mr Irving. The copyright date is 1993. This
13may be a revised or updated version perhaps.
14 A. [Mr Irving]     Well, I am telling you this document appears -- I am
15saying I have never seen it before -- to be dated October
17 Q. [Mr Rampton]     In which case it was in existence at the date of this
18speech by you at Tampa 1998, was it not?
19 A. [Mr Irving]     Yes, but you cannot rely on it for what happened in 1993.
20I may be wrong but ----
21 MR JUSTICE GRAY:     I think you are wrong, but I am not sure it
22tremendously much matters.
23 MR RAMPTON:     That is one of the areas where it matters not
24least to me whether you are right or wrong, Mr Irving.
25Can you turn over the page, please? I am not going to
26wade through all that acres of sludge on the first page

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 1all about -- I will read "Summary statement of belief", if
 2I may, bottom right-hand column: "We may summarize in the
 3following statement the ideology outlined above. We see
 4ourselves as a part of nature, subject to nature's laws",
 5nothing very controversial about that, one may think?
 6 A. [Mr Irving]     I do not know where you are.
 7 Q. [Mr Rampton]     "We recognize the inequalities which arise as natural
 8consequences of the evolutionary process and which are
 9essential to progress in every sphere of life". Again,
10somewhat uncontroversial. "We accept our responsibilities
11as Aryan men and women to serve for the advancement of our
12race in the service of life and to be the fittest
13instruments for that purpose that we can be." Then if you
14turn over the page we are beginning, Mr Irving, you may
15agree, to enter familiar territory.
16 A. [Mr Irving]     In what respect?
17 Q. [Mr Rampton]     In the respect that this is, one might think, simply an
18English, a modern English American version of Nazi
20 A. [Mr Irving]     So what? I mean, so what? What has that got to do with
22 Q. [Mr Rampton]     "White living space". You fuel these people with your
23thoughts about the Holocaust, Mr Irving, that is why it
24has got to do with you.
25 A. [Mr Irving]     Well, has it occurred to you I may go there and correct
26their opinions? I read them the documents they do not

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 1want to hear. Has this possibility occurred to you?
 2 Q. [Mr Rampton]     When did you last address a meeting of the South Balham
 3Trotsky Society, Mr Irving?
 4 A. [Mr Irving]     Mr Rampton, you are perfectly familiar with my policy
 5which says I accept invitations from whichever body
 6invites me, left or right.
 7 Q. [Mr Rampton]     Mr Irving, my question was put ----
 8 A. [Mr Irving]     If they choose not to invite me, that is their own loss.
 9 Q. [Mr Rampton]     No comment, Mr Irving.
10 A. [Mr Irving]     Well, you asked me a question and I gave you an answer.
11 Q. [Mr Rampton]     The answer to my question is never, is it not?
12 A. [Mr Irving]     If they invite me, I will come. I cannot force myself on
14 Q. [Mr Rampton]     "White living space". "In spiritually healthier times,
15our ancestors took as theirs those parts of the world
16suited by climate and terrain to our race, in particular
17all of Europe and the temperate zones of the Americas, not
18to mention Australia and the southern tip of Africa",
19note. "This was our living area and our breeding area and
20it must be so again. After the sickness of
21multiculturalism which is destroying America, Britain and
22any other Aryan nation in which it is being promoted, has
23been swept away, we must again have a racially clean area
24of the earth for the further development of our people."
25Does that reference to the "sickness of multi-culturalism"
26in Britain have any resonance for you, Mr Irving?

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