Irving v. Lipstadt


Holocaust Denial on Trial, Trial Transcripts, Day 28: Electronic Edition

Pages 46 - 50 of 204

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 1 A. [Dr Hajo Funke]     Yes, of course.
 2 Q. [Mr Irving]     Under police protection. So sometimes the extremism is
 3forced upon them, if I can put it like that?
 4 A. [Dr Hajo Funke]     If you go out, you are extreme?
 5 Q. [Mr Irving]     Well, standing on the back of a truck holding a microphone
 6in your hand looks more extreme than standing in a podium
 7in a lecture theatre, is that right?
 8 A. [Dr Hajo Funke]     Again I would refer to the content. It is not the
 9appearance as such, the content, the content of the
10speeches, the content of the reasons to invite a
11demonstration like in Halle. The content matters.
12 Q. [Mr Irving]     I am moving on. March 25th 1991. "Then to a new press
13conference by Althans (who was missing)"?
14 A. [Dr Hajo Funke]     Wait. Where are we at?
15 Q. [Mr Irving]     March 25th 1991, the diary?
16 A. [Dr Hajo Funke]     Ah, OK.
17 Q. [Mr Irving]     This is substantially before 1994, is it not?
18 A. [Dr Hajo Funke]     Yes.
19 Q. [Mr Irving]     "New press conference organised by Althans (who was
20missing). Further shambles". Then two days later, no,
21yes, one day later, March 26th: "Althans told the press
22I was at the April 21st 1990 march (untrue)". Have you
23noticed that and why did you not refer to that?
24 A. [Dr Hajo Funke]     I have to go to the letter itself, right?
25 Q. [Mr Irving]     No, it is the diary. March 26th 1991.
26 MR JUSTICE GRAY:     Well, I do not think we need to look at the

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 2 A. [Dr Hajo Funke]     Where do I get...
 3 MR IRVING:     The diary, March 26th 1991. Do you have extracts
 4from the diary there, my diary?
 5 A. [Dr Hajo Funke]     No.
 6 Q. [Mr Irving]     You do not?
 7 A. [Dr Hajo Funke]     But maybe you just quote it.
 8 Q. [Mr Irving]     Just the first line, that is March 26th 1991.
 9 A. [Dr Hajo Funke]     "The text from BFP, want me to speak May 10th, DVU,
10Althans told press I was at 21st April march (untrue)".
11 Q. [Mr Irving]     That is this demonstration, the illegal demonstration?
12 A. [Dr Hajo Funke]     Yes.
13 Q. [Mr Irving]     I put in my diary that Althans is telling the press that
14I was on it and this is untrue.
15 A. [Dr Hajo Funke]     You say? Yes, you say.
16 Q. [Mr Irving]     Why would I lie to my own diary?
17 A. [Dr Hajo Funke]     April 14th 1992, which is two years before 1994, "I am
18getting fed up with Althans. It is impossible to make
19dates". April 29th 1992, "Faxes from Althans".
20 MR JUSTICE GRAY:     I am getting really puzzled by this,
21Mr Irving. You have just referred to an entry ----
22 MR IRVING:     Yes.
23 MR JUSTICE GRAY:     --- where you said it was untrue that you had
24been at a meeting on 21st April.
25 A. [Dr Hajo Funke]     On the march after.
26 MR IRVING:     On the march?

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 1 A. [Dr Hajo Funke]     Afterwards, you know.
 2 MR JUSTICE GRAY:     On the march, I see.
 3 MR IRVING:     On this march afterwards, yes, the famous march to
 4the Vertherren Halle?
 5 A. [Dr Hajo Funke]     One of the things.
 6 MR JUSTICE GRAY:     Yes, I follow. I am sorry. I did not
 7realise it was the march, not the meeting.
 8 MR IRVING:     Precisely, my Lord. In my private diary I make
 9quite plain that this is untrue and these diaries, of
10course, have been available to the Defence and yet they
11are still persisting in their contention that I was on it.
12 MR JUSTICE GRAY:     Yes. If I may say so, Mr Irving, I have got
13the diary entries. Of course, if there is some missing
14diary entry that you want to rely on, put it to Professor
15Funke, but I do not really find it very helpful just going
16through odd entries. Could you not put your case in
17relation to Althans more broadly? I mean, it may be you
18have put it effectively already.
19 MR IRVING:     I did put it broadly, my Lord. Althans is one of
20the major figures, in my view.
21 MR JUSTICE GRAY:     I know.
22 MR IRVING:     And I have three more one line episodes to put to
23this witness which again emphasise the fact that relations
24had broken down very early on.
25 MR JUSTICE GRAY:     Right. Remember it is the wood that I need
26to look at rather than the trees. I mean, that is the

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 1point really. I can see the correspondence goes on
 2between you until 1993 into 1994. So odd entries are not
 3necessarily going to help enormously -- '95.
 4 MR IRVING:     If your Lordship has seen the odd entries, my Lord,
 5and one example of the entries you have noticed is the one
 6about the demonstration.
 7 MR RAMPTON:     It is right to point out (and everybody should be
 8aware of it) that these, I do not know quite what, the
 9abstracts at the front of each section in the RWE files
10are not, I think I have said it before, exhaustive. That
11can cut both ways.
12 MR JUSTICE GRAY:     I appreciate they are a selection, yes.
13 MR RAMPTON:     They are a selection. There is a huge amount of
14material on the cutting room floors, as Miss Rogers puts
16 MR IRVING:     And they are not agreed bundles either, my Lord, in
17this respect.
18 MR JUSTICE GRAY:     I agree. I have just said, I take
19Mr Rampton's point, that you are perfectly at liberty to
20say that you have left out a particular entry is
21significant for one reason or another, but I have the
22picture from the selected extracts and all I am asking you
23to do is to ----
24 MR IRVING:     Speed things up.
25 MR JUSTICE GRAY:     --- help on the overall association rather
26than go through individual diary entries.

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 1 MR IRVING:     We have one more specific episode here, April 29th
 21992, there is a fax from Althans, and I say ----
 3 A. [Dr Hajo Funke]     April 19th?
 4 Q. [Mr Irving]     '92?
 5 A. [Dr Hajo Funke]     No, 19th.
 6 Q. [Mr Irving]     April 29th 1992.
 7 A. [Dr Hajo Funke]     Excuse me.
 8 Q. [Mr Irving]     "Fax from Althans with an horrendously tasteless
 9invitation to my Tuesday press conference"?
10 A. [Dr Hajo Funke]     Yes.
11 Q. [Mr Irving]     Then on May 4th, from the diary again, 1992 ----
12 A. [Dr Hajo Funke]     Yes.
13 Q. [Mr Irving]     "The Manager of the Bahlscheroff has cancelled the booking
14because of Althans' horrendous invitation leaflet"?
15 A. [Dr Hajo Funke]     Yes.
16 Q. [Mr Irving]     So to turn to my original question which his Lordship
17wishes me to ask you, it is clear that relations with
18Althans were brittle?
19 A. [Dr Hajo Funke]     I would say yes.
20 Q. [Mr Irving]     Yes.
21 A. [Dr Hajo Funke]     But intense.
22 Q. [Mr Irving]     So although you quite rightly say there were contacts
23between myself and Althans, and his Lordship has seen an
24ongoing correspondence ----
25 A. [Dr Hajo Funke]     But very intense.
26 MR RAMPTON:     

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