Irving v. Lipstadt

Transcripts

Holocaust Denial on Trial, Trial Transcripts, Day 28: Electronic Edition

Pages 36 - 40 of 204

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    The way he put it in his acronym I assumed it was
 1imagination, this is a figment of the witness's
 2imagination and need to be recognised as such, in the
 3transcript in my view.
 4 A. [Dr Hajo Funke]     -- it is the Gesinnungsgemeinschaft. We talked about that
 5and we know what the body of it --
 6 MR JUSTICE GRAY:     Yes, we know about that.
 7 MR IRVING:     Paragraph 5.1.4, back to our friend Mr Althans.
 8 A. [Dr Hajo Funke]     -- 5.1.4, yes.
 9 Q. [Mr Irving]     You rightly say that in my diary I refer to him as being a
10bit of a Nazi, that is at first blush, having just first
11met him, right?
12 A. [Dr Hajo Funke]     Yes. So at least one of the first meetings right, a bit
13of Nazi but helpful.
14 Q. [Mr Irving]     A bit of Nazi but helpful. I do not want to ride too much
15on that paragraph. Would you imply that if you read that
16I regard being a bit of a Nazi as being a negative factor
17rather than a positive factor?
18 A. [Dr Hajo Funke]     Here you write as if it is a bit of a negative factor.
19 Q. [Mr Irving]     In my private diary?
20 A. [Dr Hajo Funke]     But on the same token, in the same sentence you say: He is
21though helpful.
22 Q. [Mr Irving]     Yes. You are weighing one then against other the other
23rather like Schroder, Hitler's private secretary, she was
24probably a bit of a Nazi , but she was very helpful,
25too ----
26 A. [Dr Hajo Funke]     You say a bit later again something like that, "in

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 1November '89 he was still a bit of a Nazi. He is a very
 2useful young man, 23 but looks older and tougher".
 3 Q. [Mr Irving]     Yes.
 4 A. [Dr Hajo Funke]     Or you refer to him in November driving to Strasbourg with
 5Althans and his skinhead friend to attend Christopher's
 6meeting in Hagenau.
 7 Q. [Mr Irving]     If I say I am driving to Strasbourg with somebody's
 8skinhead friend does that imply that I am raising my
 9eyebrows slightly or that I am jolly happy that this guy
10is a skinhead?
11 A. [Dr Hajo Funke]     You met them. You shared their car. You went to Hagenau,
12to very hardcore revisionist, anti-Jewish meeting in
13Hagenau with this Zundel Juden pack statements. You were
14then -- you got a dinner. You were invited by this "bit
15of a Nazi but helpful Althans" to a dinner before the
16Wahrheit macht frei Congress with Philip Deckert --
17 Q. [Mr Irving]     Can we take this in sequence, please.
18 A. [Dr Hajo Funke]     -- of course, again --
19 Q. [Mr Irving]     This was the skinhead, so he was there, he is still
20around?
21 A. [Dr Hajo Funke]     Yes.
22 Q. [Mr Irving]     Can you say from your knowledge of my private diaries that
23my original impression of Althans, this man who has been
24to Israel, my impression was very favourable --
25 A. [Dr Hajo Funke]     You did not say that he has connections at that time in
26your diary. I read it yesterday night. You said it at the

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 1end, in '97 or so, so this is why it came to surprise to
 2me. I never have known about that, because he was from 14
 3years old and on with Remer, you know, this very -- even
 4you want -- did not want to be aligned with him, person.
 5So it is a total surprise. I know this organization very
 6good, and to be very personal I like this organization.
 7 Q. [Mr Irving]     -- the actual zunnerzeit?
 8 A. [Dr Hajo Funke]     Yes, right.
 9 Q. [Mr Irving]     Have you not seen the correspondence back in early 1990 or
10late 1989 where I received a letter from somebody who told
11me about Althans's visit to Israel?
12 A. [Dr Hajo Funke]     The visit seems to my recollection, but not to
13zunnerseiten, because that I would have --
14 Q. [Mr Irving]     Registered?
15 A. [Dr Hajo Funke]     Registered, because I know this organization. It is a
16Berlin based organization and that is why I know it.
17 Q. [Mr Irving]     -- just the general overview of my diaries over the three
18years of this unfortunate association with Mr Althans, my
19initial impression of him were favourable because he was
20young and full of initiative?
21 A. [Dr Hajo Funke]     Right.
22 Q. [Mr Irving]     But I rapidly became disillusioned with him; is that
23right?
24 A. [Dr Hajo Funke]     Rapidly -- but you know in early 1990s, in 1991 it
25starts -- and even in '90 you were a bit disgusted by his
26hotheadedness, as you would put it.

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 1 Q. [Mr Irving]     There were various reasons, but you agree finally my
 2impressions of him were highly unfavourable and I warned
 3everyone against him?
 4 MR JUSTICE GRAY:     At what time are you suggesting that
 5happened, Mr Irving?
 6 MR IRVING:     Over a period of three years, two years probably
 7because by 1993 I was out. I had had no dealings with him
 8for long time by then.
 9 MR JUSTICE GRAY:     So your disillusionment started when?
10 MR IRVING:     I am just about to put to this witness a number of
11diary entries on Althans which may help to flesh that out,
12very brief entries and I have to put them to you in the
13form of putting them to you and I will show them to if you
14wish and you may well have them in front of you. On
15September 30th 1989, two lines, "Althans phoned the hotel"
16that is in Berlin "he said he would phone again" --
17 A. [Dr Hajo Funke]     '89 you say?
18 Q. [Mr Irving]     -- yes. I stayed in for this, but he did not call back
19poor manners, poor manners?
20 MR JUSTICE GRAY:     Well, that is not your best point, Mr Irving.
21 MR IRVING:     November 6th.
22 MR JUSTICE GRAY:     Move on to the next one.
23 MR IRVING:     November 6th 1989, I learn that he spent ten days
24in jail for a technical offence involving the president
25von Weisecker (?); do you have that entry?
26 A. [Dr Hajo Funke]     Yes.

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 1 Q. [Mr Irving]     Then on November 18th 1989, I note he makes a very good
 2impression, be is businesslike and ambitious, keen and
 3organized --
 4 A. [Dr Hajo Funke]     Right.
 5 Q. [Mr Irving]     -- he has learned a lot already. He appears to be coming
 6up to speed.
 7 A. [Dr Hajo Funke]     I mean he even spoke instead of you, taking your notice in
 8a given moment. So it was quite close, although his
 9manner, as you would put it, are lacking some of the
10Prussian, you know, style of organizations.
11 Q. [Mr Irving]     February 5th 1990, I am sorry, February 3rd 1990, I
12express annoyance that Althans has made no attempt to
13contact me in two and a half months, and I add that was
14very unprofessional?
15 A. [Dr Hajo Funke]     No, it went like it. You see it.
16 Q. [Mr Irving]     Well, I think this is important, because his Lordship is
17interested in the closeness of the contact. If I note on
18February 3rd 1990, I expressed annoyance that Althans and
19made no attempt to contact me in two and a half months,
20that is very unprofessional. He is supposed to be setting
21up things in Dresden and so on?
22 A. [Dr Hajo Funke]     But, again, he made this furious event in Dresden at the
2313th February '90, and.
24 Q. [Mr Irving]     --- did he --
25 A. [Dr Hajo Funke]     You describe it. So I would just, if I may, I would just
26say it is a back and forth. It is in waves, right, but

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