Irving v. Lipstadt


Holocaust Denial on Trial, Trial Transcripts, Day 28: Electronic Edition

Pages 131 - 135 of 204

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    My Lord, there is no need for this. I am going to
 1show some examples in re-examination, so the witness need
 2not worry about it at the moment.
 3 MR IRVING:     That is far more satisfactory. Page 141, we are
 4looking now at Thies Christopherson, just drawing a line
 5under him. You have agreed, have you not, that my
 6relationship with Thies Christopherson has been tenuous.
 7There have been, I think you said, one or two meetings
 8that he organized at which I spoke, Professor Funke?
 9 A. [Dr Hajo Funke]     Excuse me, I have to... I reorganized the things, so just
10a second. Yes?
11 Q. [Mr Irving]     Yes, you agree that Professor Christopherson organized one
12or perhaps two meetings at which I spoke, and that there
13is no other real meaningful contact between us?
14 A. [Dr Hajo Funke]     I would not say so with respect to these meetings, it is
15the case, but, you know, Christopherson was one of this
16little group of people who are actively enacting this kind
17of, as you call it, revisionist movement. So he was at a
18given moment of time very important together with Philipp
19and some others.
20 Q. [Mr Irving]     But my specific question was his actual meaningful
21contacts with me have been limited purely to the two
22meetings that he organized at long range, and I turned up
23and spoke and left, is that right?
24 A. [Dr Hajo Funke]     There are a lot of references in your diaries and
25interactions that is shown in the bundle.
26 Q. [Mr Irving]     The references are him inviting me to address meetings

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 1which I then did not accept?
 2 A. [Dr Hajo Funke]     Right, this is included, of course.
 3 Q. [Mr Irving]     Is there anything else you wish to say about
 4Mr Christopherson?
 5 A. [Dr Hajo Funke]     I have to look at the bundle that was given, just a
 6second. Christopherson, yes, as I said before, more
 7Christopherson letters to the Plaintiff than the other
 9 Q. [Mr Irving]     Yes. Can I without interrupting you now take you to 143,
10please, Dietler Felderer? We have not dealt with him. He
11was the one who Mr Rampton rightly said you could not tell
12whether he was a man or woman. Am I right in saying there
13has been no contact between Mr Felderer and myself
15 A. [Dr Hajo Funke]     You were both on this Leuchter Congress and, aside of
16that, I do not know.
17 Q. [Mr Irving]     I shall rephrase it. Has there been any meaningful
18contact between myself and Mr Felderer whatsoever?
19 A. [Dr Hajo Funke]     So far I think not, so far I know, I know the sources.
20 Q. [Mr Irving]     When I asked you yesterday about Mr Gottfried Kussel who
21is on page 144 and next on our list, I asked if you knew
22of any contacts between Mr Gottfried Kussel and your reply
23was, "I do not know"?
24 A. [Dr Hajo Funke]     No.
25 Q. [Mr Irving]     There is no mention in the diaries, right?
26 A. [Dr Hajo Funke]     Then I have to be more precise.

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 1 Q. [Mr Irving]     That is what you said yesterday.
 2 A. [Dr Hajo Funke]     Say it again?
 3 Q. [Mr Irving]     That is what you said yesterday. Your answer was, "I do
 4not know".
 5 A. [Dr Hajo Funke]     To what question?
 6 Q. [Mr Irving]     Had you any information or any evidence that there had
 7been any contacts between me whatsoever between myself and
 8Mr Gottfried Kussel?
 9 A. [Dr Hajo Funke]     Then I have to, then I was a bit tired. To be more
10precise, the kind of context that you have in meetings,
11and I again stated it, I think, today in the morning or
12yesterday that it is of importance that you joined the
13demonstration in Halle, for example, where he was leading
14the demonstration.
15 Q. [Mr Irving]     What you are saying is that because he was in Halle on the
16same day that I was and that he was within one
17geographical mile of where I was, this is a meaningful
18contact between me and this rather unpleasant person?
19 A. [Dr Hajo Funke]     No, I have to restate it.
20 Q. [Mr Irving]     You have no evidence for any other kind of contact?
21 A. [Dr Hajo Funke]     I have to restate that this whole organization done and
22prepared by Christian Worch was part of the activities of
23the so-called Gesinnungsgemeinschaft that includes at the
24top of this Gesinnungsgemeinschaft of this organization of
25neo-Nazis, Kussel, Worch and one and two or two others.
26 Q. [Mr Irving]     So this is rather like saying that because somebody else

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 1is member of the AA and you are a member of the AA,
 2therefore, you are connected to that man?
 3 A. [Dr Hajo Funke]     What is AA?
 4 Q. [Mr Irving]     Is that what you are saying?
 5 A. [Dr Hajo Funke]     If you describe your revisionist movement as an automobile
 6club, I would say yes.
 7 Q. [Mr Irving]     Well, it is the same kind of argument, is it not?
 8 A. [Dr Hajo Funke]     No, it is not. You are invited ----
 9 Q. [Mr Irving]     Is that good as it gets?
10 A. [Dr Hajo Funke]     No, this is not. It is a total distortion of what all the
11people in the court, of the court, could have seen
12yesterday, and what we described at length.
13 Q. [Mr Irving]     But ----
14 A. [Dr Hajo Funke]     That you were invited by one of the leading members of the
15Kuhnen connection, that is by Uschi Worch, to make a
16rabble rousing, as you quote yourself, rabble rousing
17speech to them, in a special moment of reshuffling and
18widening the influence of this very group.
19 Q. [Mr Irving]     That does not answer the question, does it, as to whether
20you have any evidence of contact meaningfully between
21myself and Mr Kussel himself in person which is what this
22is about?
23 A. [Dr Hajo Funke]     Again, I cannot say, I cannot answer this in the way you
24question because you cannot separate -- maybe others can,
25I cannot -- you cannot separate a person from a special
26movement and you are referring to another movement with

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 1that is very similar. So a movement is a movement in
 2which given persons has a special importance and
 3especially in the parallel organization leading persons
 4have special importance, and within this parallel
 5organization it was Worch and Kussel and one or two
 6others, and Worch, both Worchs, organized the meeting
 7together with the DNP or NPD leader of this region,
 8Dienel, and they asked you to talk at the first, as the
 9first and most important of this whole rally. This is
10something different as compared to whatever, AA.
11 Q. [Mr Irving]     This is getting very tedious. You say they asked me.
12What evidence do you have for that statement, they asked
13me to speak at this meeting in Halle?
14 A. [Dr Hajo Funke]     Again one of the central persons asked you.
15 Q. [Mr Irving]     One of the people?
16 A. [Dr Hajo Funke]     Of course, yes.
17 Q. [Mr Irving]     Can I now take you to page 146, please? This is
18Mr Jurigen Riga -- this is going to be very brief, I hope
19-- you answer in one line, is there any evidence
20whatsoever of the slightest contact between myself and
21Mr Jurigen Riga, meaningful contact?
22 A. [Dr Hajo Funke]     I do not know.
23 MR JUSTICE GRAY:     It is not on the list actually, so you need
24not really trouble.
25 MR IRVING:     I beg your pardon?
26 MR JUSTICE GRAY:     He is not on the list, I do not think.

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