Irving v. Lipstadt


Holocaust Denial on Trial, Trial Transcripts, Day 27: Electronic Edition

Pages 46 - 50 of 183

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    --- a graph to represent this interactions, and you have,
 1interconnecting person, Karl Philipp, then you have, on
 2the other hand, the Althans group and the person himself
 3especially, and then you have some Austrians, by the way,
 4very famous right-wing extremists, like Rephandel in
 5Skrinski, who are known to David Irving, then you have the
 6DVU connection we did not talk about in the '80s.
 7 Q. [Mr Rampton]     No, Gerhard Frey?
 8 A. [Dr Hajo Funke]     Gerhard Frey, this not legalized extremist party, then you
 9have the interaction we talked about, the Gunter Deckert
10of NPD then in the '90s radicalized NPD, and you have the
11neo-Nazis we spoke about at the beginning. So you have a
12whole, you know, if you want to centre Irving, you can do
13so. You know, they are the revisionists, if I may say so,
14they are the neoNazis, they are the Austrians, not so
15intense, intense, the DVU Frey, the Deckert NPD, the
16Althans, the Philipp person as person transmitters and,
17you know, organizers. Then there is another bunch of
18people out of the late '70s and early '80s of the then
19active network of right-wing extremists -- just I could
20name some of them.
21 Q. [Mr Rampton]     We will stay with what we have at the moment because it is
22already rather indigestible. Could we have a look at that
23beautiful document? When did you make it?
24 A. [Dr Hajo Funke]     In the last days.
25 Q. [Mr Rampton]     Yes. I have not seen it before.
26 A. [Dr Hajo Funke]     Because to get, you know ----

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 1 Q. [Mr Rampton]     Could I have a look at it because if it looks impressive,
 2we had better have it copied. Mr Irving will see it too
 3in a moment. It is slightly untidy, Professor.
 4 A. [Dr Hajo Funke]     Yes, I know. My writing is limited to the degree of being
 5very clear, clean.
 6 MR IRVING:     Perhaps you could wait until we see how many names
 7we can knock off this before he makes the ----
 8 MR JUSTICE GRAY:     I am not particularly enthusiastic about
10 MR RAMPTON:     Right. Give the drawing back to the Professor
11then. I can tell your Lordship this, that there are diary
12entries in Mr Irving's diary for November 1989 which
13describe a speaking tour of Spain starting on -- it is a
14very short one, two days, three days.
15 A. [Dr Hajo Funke]     Yes, I recall.
16 Q. [Mr Rampton]     Four days. That is not short. I could not speak for four
17days. Four days starting on November 17th 1989 seems to
18have been organized by Verala?
19 A. [Dr Hajo Funke]     That is what I meant.
20 Q. [Mr Rampton]     That is what you meant, yes.
21 A. [Dr Hajo Funke]     Thank you.
22 Q. [Mr Rampton]     There is also a Rami section, my Lord, in the RWE files in
23the second one at tab 18. Thank you very much.
24 MR JUSTICE GRAY:     I have not got a tab 18. I did look for Rami
25and I ----
26 MR RAMPTON:     He is right at the back.

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 1 MR JUSTICE GRAY:     He is not in the index, but at the back. You
 2are quite right.
 3 MR RAMPTON:     He is not in the index, but he is at the back.
 4There is not an awful lot on him. I think seven
 5entries ----
 6 MR JUSTICE GRAY:     Thank you very much.
 7 MR RAMPTON:     --- involving Mr Irving. Thank you, Professor,
 8for the moment. We will need your help because I am now
 9going to show these tapes. Miss Rogers, my Lord, before
10we start looking at the films, has prepared a
11chronological, not exhaustive, list of Mr Irving's
12speeches starting in January 1983 and ending in November
131988 upon which your Lordship will find or in which your
14Lordship will find the three or four that we are going to
15look at now.
16 MR JUSTICE GRAY:     Thank you very much. Where shall we put
18 MR RAMPTON:     In front of RWE1, I should have thought. One for
19the witness, I think. Who is going to control this ----
20 MR IRVING:     This is not an exhaustive list of speeches, is it?
21 MR RAMPTON:     No, I said it was not.
22 MR IRVING:     It is a very selective list. I mean, in some years
23I spoke 190 times in one year.
24 MR RAMPTON:     I quite agree. When Mr Irving is speaking to the
25East Grinstead RSPCA I have not put in a ----
26 MR JUSTICE GRAY:     It is selective.

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 1 MR RAMPTON:     It is selective indeed. I would like to show the
 2tapes. Where are the tapes, is the first question?
 3I think, my Lord, the safest way of dealing with this, if
 4I may suggest it, is if Miss Rogers is allowed to stand up
 5there, do you mind doing that, and with help stop it at
 6the right places.
 7 MR IRVING:     My Lord, when it comes to the speech upon Halle,
 8I would to like to know whether it is the raw, uncut
 9footage they are going to show.
10 MR JUSTICE GRAY:     Shall we pause before Halle? Is Halle the
11last one? I have the impression it was.
12 MR RAMPTON:     Yes, Halle is the last one. I cannot answer
13Mr Irving's question on that, I am afraid, I just do not
15 MR JUSTICE GRAY:     No, but he can make his objection to it then.
16Is there a transcript of Halle?
17 MR RAMPTON:     There is not a transcript of any of them.
18 A. [Dr Hajo Funke]     But it is a disclosure of -- he is on the website.
19 MR JUSTICE GRAY:     No, but I would like to see the transcript
20all the same. I suspect in the end, Mr Irving, I am
21probably going to have to see it and then form a view
22about your objections, if there is no transcript.
23 MR IRVING:     Precisely. Your Lordship will be familiar from the
24inter partes correspondence that there was a major dispute
25about the Halle tape.
26 MR JUSTICE GRAY:     No, I am not conscious of that at all.

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 1 MR IRVING:     It was concealed from me in discovery and I had to
 2conduct several interlocutory actions under the rules of
 3discovery to force the -- it was accidently discovered to
 4me, the raw tapes.
 5 MR JUSTICE GRAY:     Anyway, you got it in the end.
 6 MR IRVING:     And we had a lot of trouble over it.
 7 MR RAMPTON:     My Lord, may I sit while this is going on.
 8 MR JUSTICE GRAY:     Of course, please.
 9 A. [Dr Hajo Funke]     This is in Hagenau, if I may say.
10 MR RAMPTON:     It seems to be a still.
11 (The video tape was played)
12 MR RAMPTON:     Can we stop there, please? Who is that speaking
13in the middle?
14 A. [Dr Hajo Funke]     This person to the left -- maybe David Irving can help us.
15 MR JUSTICE GRAY:     Well, I am not sure that is quite the way to
16conduct this.
17 MR IRVING:     I would be happy to assist if I recognize him.
18 MR JUSTICE GRAY:     I think I will not ask you to, let us just
19see what the witness can say.
20 MR IRVING:     It is not Valendi, as far as I know.
21 A. [Dr Hajo Funke]     I am not sure. That is why -- but I heard that he
22organized the debate.
23 MR RAMPTON:     Who is the one in the middle with the stripy tie?
24 A. [Dr Hajo Funke]     Now, in the back not seeing is Ernst Zundel, to the right
25it is Faurisson.
26 Q. [Mr Rampton]     

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