Irving v. Lipstadt


Holocaust Denial on Trial, Trial Transcripts, Day 27: Electronic Edition

Pages 111 - 115 of 183

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    Then let me put this question to the witness.
 1Dr Fry in which Dr Fry warned me that Althans was a very
 2suspect character?
 3 A. [Dr Hajo Funke]     Yes, I read this.
 4 MR JUSTICE GRAY:     When is that? I mean, I am not quite sure
 5where it is taking us.
 6 A. [Dr Hajo Funke]     It is in the early time when David Irving and Ewald
 7Althans did this very intense cooperation.
 8 MR IRVING:     In other words, it was at the material times to
 9which Mr Rampton is referring I did receive already an
10advanced warning that there was something fishy about
11Mr Althans?
12 A. [Dr Hajo Funke]     But may I add something to that?
13 MR JUSTICE GRAY:     Yes.
14 MR IRVING:     Of course.
15 A. [Dr Hajo Funke]     You know, it has to be taken into account that the DVU was
16a Congress organization on the right extremist ----
17 THE INTERPRETER:     A competitor?
18 A. [Dr Hajo Funke]     A competitor on the right, right-wing extremist side. So
19they feared, so far I recall the diaries and the letters
20and so forth, that the action Althans is proposing to
21David Irving may hurt his reputation as accepted in this
22right-wing extremist circles around the DVU as accepted
23speaker, because Althans was more far right, as I said, as
24a neo-Nazi, and may endanger this special, you know,
25interaction between the right-wing extremists around the
26DVU, on the one hand, and David Irving on the other

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 2     So there are several causes that this warning
 3came, and it did not allude to the fact that he may be a
 4member of the Secret Service. If I am allowed to, I would
 5then question also why David Irving took sides with this,
 6you know, dangerous, or whatever, mysterious character at
 7that time for that period of time, but this is a question
 8that may be valued by others.
 9 MR IRVING:     Certainly it is a question for Mr Rampton to
10consider when his turn comes along, but the fact remains
11that if Mr Althans was working for the German Government
12security agencies, it is possible that he had been given
13the task of framing me, is it not -- if you can understand
14that question?
15 A. [Dr Hajo Funke]     Can you translate it?
16 MR JUSTICE GRAY:     I am afraid I do not.
17 MR IRVING:     I beg your pardon?
18 MR JUSTICE GRAY:     I am afraid I do not. Of entrapping you?
19 MR IRVING:     [German]. Entrapping, yes.
20 A. [Dr Hajo Funke]     I cannot answer that. I cannot answer that.
21 MR IRVING:     Are you an expert on the verwaschungsschultz, on
22the German security agencies?
23 A. [Dr Hajo Funke]     Yes, I know it a bit, but I am not an expert on that.
24 Q. [Mr Irving]     Are you familiar with any other instances where they had
25used these kinds of methods?
26 A. [Dr Hajo Funke]     Yes, of course.

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 1 Q. [Mr Irving]     Yes, thank you. You made reference to the
 2Wehrsportgruppe, the military exercise units, and
 3Mr Rampton rightly asked you, rather like the Americans
 4who go running around pooping off guns at each other in
 5World War II uniforms, there is that kind of comparison,
 6is there not? The same kind of thing happens in the
 7United States?
 8 A. [Dr Hajo Funke]     I am shy to compare these different, you know, political
 9cultures, but there are some to a limit some comparable
10things there.
11 Q. [Mr Irving]     There is no suggestion, is there, that I have any
12connection with one particular group, the Hoffmann group,
13which you mention in your report?
14 A. [Dr Hajo Funke]     No, I did not mention it in relation to David Irving.
15I did mention it in relation to, and this was an
16interesting, you know, action, with respect to the DVU and
17its leader, Gerhard Frey, who so eagerly tried to be legal
18and said in the letters to David Irving again and again:
19 "Don't mention Jews, don't mention Hitler, just because
20to be not illegalized as an extremist party". So it was
21 -- I wondered very much that this could happen in the
22late '70s with Gerhard Frey ----
23 Q. [Mr Irving]     But there was no reason why ----
24 A. [Dr Hajo Funke]     --- and Hoffmann.
25 Q. [Mr Irving]     --- you are not implying that I had any connection with
26that group?

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 1 A. [Dr Hajo Funke]     No, no, not at all. It shows, you know, the extent in
 2which right-wing extremism, although legal, tried to
 3extend their behaviour.
 4 Q. [Mr Irving]     Now you say that in March 1991 it was planned to invite me
 5to Wansiedel?
 6 A. [Dr Hajo Funke]     Yes.
 7 Q. [Mr Irving]     To speak on Rudolf Hess. Are you familiar with the fact
 8that I am an expert on Rudolf Hess and that I have
 9published a book on Rudolf Hess?
10 A. [Dr Hajo Funke]     I know that you published a book on Rudolf Hess.
11 Q. [Mr Irving]     Yes. So would I be a natural speaker to invite to a
12function like that?
13 A. [Dr Hajo Funke]     I have to put it differently to answer it correctly
14according to my knowledge, and to my judgments, of course,
15that goes with it, the invitation to speak there was
16multifaceted. It was also how you present Rudolf Hess to
17a given audience, so they knew whom they want to invite
18and have there speaking, and the letters back and forth
19are very interesting in that respect. As I mentioned
20earlier, you did not answer positively because of the
21appearance of ----
22 Q. [Mr Irving]     Well, this is the next question.
23 A. [Dr Hajo Funke]     OK.
24 Q. [Mr Irving]     Can I ask the questions in sequence, please? The book
25that I wrote about Rudolf Hess would have told them what
26they needed to know, would it not, what my attitude on

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 1that man was?
 2 A. [Dr Hajo Funke]     Say again?
 3 Q. [Mr Irving]     The book that I wrote about Rudolf Hess would have told
 4them what my attitude on that man was?
 5 A. [Dr Hajo Funke]     Yes.
 6 Q. [Mr Irving]     Was that attitude reprehensible, in your view?
 7 A. [Dr Hajo Funke]     I say, I just say that in combination of the book and how
 8you present the Rudolf Hess case in your speeches in
 9Germany makes it valid for these neo-Nazis to invite you.
10 Q. [Mr Irving]     Is there any difference between the hypotheses that I set
11in my book on Rudolf Hess and the content of my speeches
12on Rudolf Hess which have been printed several times?
13There is no distinction?
14 A. [Dr Hajo Funke]     Again I would pinpoint to the context, the political
16 Q. [Mr Irving]     You accept that the book on Rudolf Hess was published by
17Macmillan & Company in this country which is one of our
18most prestigious companies?
19 A. [Dr Hajo Funke]     So far I know.
20 Q. [Mr Irving]     And that they would be unlikely to publish a neo-Nazi or
21Holocaust denial book or an anti-Semitic book on Rudolf
23 A. [Dr Hajo Funke]     I did not say that.
24 Q. [Mr Irving]     The reason that -- we now come to the point you are about
25to make -- I finally rejected the invitation to spoke at
26Wansiedel, do you know what that reason was?

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