Irving v. Lipstadt


Holocaust Denial on Trial, Trial Transcripts, Day 24: Electronic Edition

Pages 11 - 15 of 192

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    Would you, from your knowledge of other governments, think
 1time, British government or the American government, or
 2was it something extraordinary, the degree of ----
 3 A. [Dr Heinz Peter Longerich]     I made point in the book I wrote on the Party Chancellery
 4that I think this exceeded the normal of in-fighting you
 5find in all governments. It is a special case here.
 6 Q. [Mr Irving]     Yes. When you worked in the Institute of History, who was
 7the director at that time? Was it still Martin Broszat?
 8 A. [Dr Heinz Peter Longerich]     At this time it was Martin Broszat until his death in
10 Q. [Mr Irving]     He had a very great reputation, did he not, and he is
11still greatly admired by German historians?
12 A. [Dr Heinz Peter Longerich]     Yes, I think so.
13 Q. [Mr Irving]     Were you familiar with all the collections of documents in
14the Institute files? Did you work in the archives at all?
15 A. [Dr Heinz Peter Longerich]     Not all the files. I mean, the Institute has an enormous
16collection of files, but I know some of them.
17 Q. [Mr Irving]     Yes. Was Dr Hoff still there, Anton Hoff, the archivist?
18 A. [Dr Heinz Peter Longerich]     No, I think he died in 1883.
19 Q. [Mr Irving]     1983?
20 A. [Dr Heinz Peter Longerich]     1983, sorry.
21 Q. [Mr Irving]     Just before you came?
22 A. [Dr Heinz Peter Longerich]     Yes.
23 Q. [Mr Irving]     It is a very friendly atmosphere there at the archives, at
24the institute?
25 A. [Dr Heinz Peter Longerich]     I think they were friendly to me. I do not know ----
26 Q. [Mr Irving]     They are very co-operative, are they not? They do not

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 1hold things back very much apart from own private
 3 A. [Dr Heinz Peter Longerich]     I cannot make such a general statement.
 4 Q. [Mr Irving]     In fact, you probably had quite a lowly position there,
 5did you not? You were a newcomer and you were working in
 6the Institute?
 7 A. [Dr Heinz Peter Longerich]     I have no difficulties in actually getting access to the
 8collection but I cannot make a general statement on that.
 9 Q. [Mr Irving]     Did you ever take the opportunity to look at what is now
10ED 100, the collection of my documents which is in the
12 A. [Dr Heinz Peter Longerich]     I think I have seen some of the ED 100 files, but I cannot
13say that I have a complete overview.
14 Q. [Mr Irving]     Yes.
15 A. [Dr Heinz Peter Longerich]     I have seen some of them yes, but at the moment I cannot
16recall every document I have seen in the Institute.
17 Q. [Mr Irving]     I am just going to give you a list of names of collections
18of diaries. I am sorry, you have a copy of this already.
19I ought to give a copy to his Lordship, perhaps. (Same
20handed) just on the back of that there is a blue column
21called Hitler's People. Do you have that if you turn it
22over? There is a list of names of diaries that I used
23when I wrote my book Hitler's War, which are now in the
24archives. I have added to those since then but I just
25pick out a few names. Canaris: Would that be a valuable

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 1 A. [Dr Heinz Peter Longerich]     At the moment I cannot recall the Canaris diaries. I am
 2not able to comment on every item, but I think some of
 3them are of course important.
 4 Q. [Mr Irving]     Some are more important and some are less important?
 5 A. [Dr Heinz Peter Longerich]     Yes.
 6 Q. [Mr Irving]     Dr Longerich, I am not trying to trick you. I am just at
 7this stage trying establish -- I will give a little
 8warning if I am going to try and trick you.
 9 MR JUSTICE GRAY:     Mr Irving, do I get anything more from than
10that -- is this the new edition that is coming out
12 MR IRVING:     No, this is the second edition, my Lord, but I just
13wanted to comment on the fact I wondered whether he had
14taken the trouble to look at these very important
15collections of diaries that are in my collection, either
16for his own work or in the expert report.
17 MR JUSTICE GRAY:     Can you put it as a single question rather
18than the whole lot?
19 MR IRVING:     Yes. Did you use the diary of Walter Havel?
20 A. [Dr Heinz Peter Longerich]     I looked at the transcripts. I think it is in England, is
21it not, the original? I looked at the transcripts at one
22stage but not for the Party Chancellery. I think I looked
23at the Bormann, it is more a calendar.
24 Q. [Mr Irving]     The calendar?
25 A. [Dr Heinz Peter Longerich]     Yes.
26 Q. [Mr Irving]     Which I have now provided to the Defendants. The Walter

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 1Havel diary does contain one of these episodes July 1941,
 2does it not, where Hitler describes the Jews as a
 4 A. [Dr Heinz Peter Longerich]     I cannot recall this particular passage, I am afraid.
 5 Q. [Mr Irving]     When you drew up this glossary of meanings of words,
 6which, I must say, I find very useful indeed, and this
 7goes purely to the conduct of the case, when did you start
 8writing that approximately?
 9 A. [Dr Heinz Peter Longerich]     I think it was in December last year.
10 Q. [Mr Irving]     In December last year?
11 A. [Dr Heinz Peter Longerich]     Yes, I tried to use the Christmas holiday to do it.
12 Q. [Mr Irving]     When did you complete it?
13 A. [Dr Heinz Peter Longerich]     I think it was actually in January think.
14 Q. [Mr Irving]     You completed it in January?
15 A. [Dr Heinz Peter Longerich]     Yes, January I think.
16 Q. [Mr Irving]     Yes. When were you asked to do it by the instructing
17solicitors in this case?
18 A. [Dr Heinz Peter Longerich]     I think they wrote me an e-mail. I think it was in
19November, but I could not start immediately to work on it
20because I had other obligations. So I am sure I started
21to work on it at the end of the Christmas holidays.
22 Q. [Mr Irving]     You got a letter of instruction?
23 A. [Dr Heinz Peter Longerich]     I think, as far as I recall this, I got an e-mail.
24 Q. [Mr Irving]     Yes. So you got an e-mail sometime in November, you began
25writing in December and you completed it in January?
26 A. [Dr Heinz Peter Longerich]     Yes, that is right.

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 1 Q. [Mr Irving]     Any idea when in January you completed it?
 2 A. [Dr Heinz Peter Longerich]     I think it was more through the end of January, probably
 3on the first days of February, I cannot recall.
 4 MR RAMPTON:     I can help, I think, because now it comes out of
 5Dr Longerich's hands, as it were. It came in its first
 6version in German, which, since I was the person who
 7requested it, I think in November is right, maybe even
 8October, and was useless to me. So it had to be
 9translated. It came back and the translation was, to say
10the least, unsatisfactory. Then it had it go back again,
11and what we now have emerged in the course of the last few
13 MR IRVING:     Yes.
14 MR JUSTICE GRAY:     Mr Irving I am not unsympathetic to the fact
15that you are having to deal with this at pretty short
16notice because it came to you very, very late in the day.
17 MR IRVING:     Of course I accept Mr Rampton's explanation but it
18was delivered to me on Friday evening and, if it turns out
19he completed it in January, I would have wanted to know
20what the reason for the delay was.
21 MR JUSTICE GRAY:     If you want to say you want Dr Longerich to
22come back at some later stage because you want to ask some
23further questions, you would be pushing at an open door.
24 MR IRVING:     I fully accept Mr Rampton's explanation about
25translation difficulties.
26     During your professional career, Dr Longerich,

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