Irving v. Lipstadt


Holocaust Denial on Trial, Trial Transcripts, Day 18: Electronic Edition

Pages 76 - 80 of 181

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    Well, you can, I have just told you, you can
 2 MR IRVING:     When you were engaged to write this expert report,
 3were you shown at any time any law report that had been
 4produced by Penguin books in this country, any libel
 5reading report on the book, on the book that is complained
 7 A. [Professor Richard John Evans]     No.
 8 Q. [Mr Irving]     When your books are published in the United Kingdom, your
 9own books, are they subjected to a legal reading to see if
10they libel anyone?
11 A. [Professor Richard John Evans]     Not that I have ever been aware of.
12 Q. [Mr Irving]     So, to your knowledge, therefore, as far as you know,
13there was no report prepared by any firm of lawyers,
14reputable lawyers, on the book before it was published?
15 A. [Professor Richard John Evans]     All I can say is that I did not see any such report.
16I cannot answer as to whether there was one or not.
17 Q. [Mr Irving]     I am not going to be allowed to ask him questions about
18intermarriage then, am I?
19 MR JUSTICE GRAY:     Sorry, I am not quite sure I understand what
20the intended question is.
21 MR IRVING:     Well, following through the question of whether
22Jews would be expected to live by a different set of rules
23than those that they criticise? If I am criticised here
24for the racist ditty once again, as I have been, am
25I entitled in some way to introduce evidence about what
26the Second Defendant has written herself on precisely this

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 2 MR JUSTICE GRAY:     About intermarriage?
 3 MR IRVING:     About intermarriage, and if so, can I do it now?
 4 MR JUSTICE GRAY:     It is quite difficult to answer that question
 5without knowing what it is you are going to produce. Have
 6you got a copy of it because, perhaps if you would be good
 7enough to hand it in and then I can perhaps look at it
 8over the adjournment and you can come back to it?
 9 MR IRVING:     There were several articles which the Second
10Defendant has written in this respect. I will yellow
11highlight the only part that your Lordship should read.
12 MR JUSTICE GRAY:     Yes, but do you mind coming back to it later
13when I have had a chance to look at it?
14 MR IRVING:     Yes. I would like to put to you Professor Levin's
15report now which is at page 125.
16 A. [Professor Richard John Evans]     Sorry. Mine only has 123 pages.
17 Q. [Mr Irving]     Levin or Eatwell?
18 A. [Professor Richard John Evans]     Levin.
19 MR JUSTICE GRAY:     So does mine.
20 MR IRVING:     Oh, dear! This is covering the diary entries for
211995. It is paragraph 11.
22 A. [Professor Richard John Evans]     OK. I think I can find it.
23 Q. [Mr Irving]     I am just going to take one sample paragraph?
24 MR JUSTICE GRAY:     It is around 108, I think.
25 A. [Professor Richard John Evans]     Yes paragraph 11.
26 MR IRVING:     Beginning with "Irving was also".

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 1 A. [Professor Richard John Evans]     Ah, no.
 2 Q. [Mr Irving]     Covering the diary entries for 1995.
 3 A. [Professor Richard John Evans]     No, I am afraid I cannot find it.
 4 MR JUSTICE GRAY:     No, I cannot.
 5 MR RAMPTON:     We are looking for it in our bundle.
 6 MR IRVING:     This question goes purely to the accuracy of
 7Professor Levin's style of extracting the diaries.
 8 A. [Professor Richard John Evans]     Ah, right.
 9 MR RAMPTON:     There is a paragraph 11 on page 107, my Lord.
10 MR IRVING:     Beginning "Irving was also"?
11 MR JUSTICE GRAY:     No, I do not think it does.
12 MR RAMPTON:     No, it is not that.
13 A. [Professor Richard John Evans]     Yes, I have it here. It is at page 102, paragraph 11:
14"Irving was also forced to confront various incidents",
15is that it?
16 MR IRVING:     Yes.
17 A. [Professor Richard John Evans]     The Key West landlady evicted him from her hotel, etc.,
19 Q. [Mr Irving]     Yes. Would you carry on down to the next item, please?
20"Irving's April 13th diary entry recounts his displeasure
21at having his name mentioned 'in the most disparaging
22terms in half a dozen places' along with supposed errors
23in an official Canadian government report."
24 A. [Professor Richard John Evans]     Yes.
25 Q. [Mr Irving]     Are you familiar with that so-called official Canadian
26government report?

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 1 A. [Professor Richard John Evans]     No.
 2 Q. [Mr Irving]     I am going to ask that bundle E should be put to you.
 3There is a bundle called "Global". Do we have a copy?
 4 MR JUSTICE GRAY:     Yes, I know the one.
 5 MR IRVING:     Let us see if we can find. It is page 116 of that
 7 MR JUSTICE GRAY:     In E, has the witness got E?
 8 MR IRVING:     It is a very long document beginning at page 116,
 9headed with the words: "Confidential. David Irving,
10biographical information". You see at page 116? I am
11just taking this paragraph as one sample in advance, a
12foretaste, of the problems with the Levin report. So that
13is a document, a pretty lengthy document, headed with the
14words "Confidential. David Irving, biographical
16 A. [Professor Richard John Evans]     Yes.
17 Q. [Mr Irving]     And that document, as we know from an affidavit by
18Mr Michael Wein of the Board of Deputies in this country,
19which his Lordship probably finds quicker than I do, was
20put, in fact, it was furnished to the Canadian government
21by this British body, would you accept that? It was
22furnished to the Simon Wiesenthal Centre in Canada when
23they requested dirt on me to prevent me entering Canada?
24 MR JUSTICE GRAY:     Assume it.
25 A. [Professor Richard John Evans]     I will assume it. I mean, I do find it very difficult to
26answer questions on other people's reports. The reason

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 1why there is a number of different expert witnesses for
 2the Defence in this case is to assist the court in a
 3number of different areas because no one person is
 4competent to deal with them all.
 5 Q. [Mr Justice Gray]     Did you recommend Professor Levin?
 6 A. [Professor Richard John Evans]     I have to say, I am not an expert on the Canadian
 7government and ----
 8 MR JUSTICE GRAY:     Professor Evans, can I explain to you
 9(because you may not know this) the difficulty? Mr Irving
10is representing himself. I am, therefore, giving him what
11I hope is appropriate but quite a good degree of
12latitude. He is accused of various things, like racism
13and anti-Semitism. He has been cross-examined vigorously
14on that topic. The Defendants had experts who produced
15great long reports, as you know, dealing with those topics
16and the Defendants have decided not to call them.
17     Mr Irving is, therefore, in the position of
18being the subject of the criticisms that they make of him,
19albeit no longer part of the Defendants' formal case, and
20he wishes to put one or two points to you as being
21somebody who is there to be shot at, as it were. I have
22decided that it is proper that he should do so.
23     I think he may be spending rather long on it
24than I had hoped, but I am going to let him do that. So,
25for the purposes of this part of the cross-examination,
26will you assume that the Canadians got hold of this

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