Irving v. Lipstadt


Holocaust Denial on Trial, Trial Transcripts, Day 18: Electronic Edition

Pages 136 - 140 of 181

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    That is not what we are talking about. That is now
 1view and have not been disproved.
 2 A. [Professor Richard John Evans]     Well, that is my assessment of ----
 3 Q. [Mr Irving]     I mean Broszat and Hilberg, I am sorry.
 4 A. [Professor Richard John Evans]     That is my assessment of the situation of research in this
 6 Q. [Mr Irving]     At the end ----
 7 A. [Professor Richard John Evans]     If you wish to produce documents which go against that,
 8you are quite welcome to do so.
 9 Q. [Mr Irving]     Well, I did take it, Professor, that you had studied the
10documents in this case which include on several places in
11the expert reports the precise statements by Martin
12Broszat and Hilberg to this effect.
13     Would you go to the end of this particular
14paragraph ----
15 A. [Professor Richard John Evans]     I do, Mr Irving, outline Broszat's ----
16 Q. [Mr Irving]     --- On page 25?
17 A. [Professor Richard John Evans]     --- views on the decision-making process in my report, and
18I do note that because he thought of the decision-making
19process as coming from, as it were, the bottom up, that
20that inclined him to be sympathetic to your particular
21line on Hitler. So if that helps at all, I do not dispute
23 Q. [Mr Irving]     At the end of the last line and a half on page 25, you
24say: "Irving has fallen so far short of the standards of
25scholarship customary among historians that he does not
26deserve to be called a historian at all". Is this still

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 1your view, having heard all the evidence over the last
 2four or five weeks, that I show no scholarship ----
 3 A. [Professor Richard John Evans]     Yes, it has been ----
 4 Q. [Mr Irving]     --- I do not deserve to be called an historian?
 5 A. [Professor Richard John Evans]     --- reinforced by what I have read in the transcripts over
 6the last weeks. I thought it would be helpful to the
 7court to outline my conclusions in advance, as it were,
 8instead of keeping the court guessing and waiting as it
 9ploughed through my report. But, of course, it is
10somewhat kind of upside-down, if you see what I mean? I
11mean, this is, in a sense taking the conclusion in
13 Q. [Mr Irving]     Let us go now to page 26 where you talk about my
14publishing career, you say most of my books about the Nazi
15leaders and Nazi Germany. Are you familiar with the book
16I wrote on the German atomic bomb project, which was the
17first book ever written on that subject and which was very
18highly praised by Nobel prize winner like Otto Haan, Verna
20 A. [Professor Richard John Evans]     No, I am not. I have not read that one.
21 Q. [Mr Irving]     This book was not provided to you by the Defence
22instructing solicitors to form your judgment on?
23 A. [Professor Richard John Evans]     Let me come back to the point, Mr Irving, that you have
24written about 30 books, some of which are more relevant to
25the issues which are at the centre of this case, and
26others and in the time available I am sure you would agree

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 1I could not possibly read through them all, even with a
 2team with two research assistants working for me.
 3Therefore, I selected the ones which I thought were most
 4relevant to the issues which are at the centre of this
 6 Q. [Mr Irving]     But you have allowed yourself, notwithstanding that, some
 7pretty sweeping judgments on my credentials, have you not?
 8 A. [Professor Richard John Evans]     On the basis of what I read which I think is a fair
10 Q. [Mr Irving]     But at the end of that paragraph ----
11 A. [Professor Richard John Evans]     Let me remind you, this a 740-page report. There is an
12enormous amount of detail in it, and it simply was not
13possible to go any further in the time available.
14 Q. [Mr Irving]     But if you make seeping judgments about author's entire
15corpus as a historian over a 39-year writing career, and
16you say that he has not deserved the title of historian or
17he is not a scholarship and all the rest of it, one
18assumes that you are familiar with all his works,
19including these ones which have not been the least bit
20controversial and attracted the highest praise from people
21in positions to know?
22 A. [Professor Richard John Evans]     No. I make it quite clear in the report that I am not
23familiar with all of your works, that I have done a
24selection for the reasons that I have said, but ----
25 Q. [Mr Irving]     You are familiar with my book on the Hungarian uprising?
26 A. [Professor Richard John Evans]     No. That seemed so far away from the issues at the centre

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 1of this case that it really was not one that I should have
 3 Q. [Mr Irving]     But you do pass comment on it on page 27?
 4 A. [Professor Richard John Evans]     Yes, in this section, Mr Irving, I am simply trying to
 5give a brief run down of what you have written. That is
 6all I am trying to do.
 7 Q. [Mr Irving]     But in the process of running me down you might also have
 8paid attention to the book I wrote on the German
 9Intelligence Service, the Forschungsamt, and on the German
10Eastern Frontiers, the history of the German Eastern
11Frontiers, but they appear to have escaped your attention
13 A. [Professor Richard John Evans]     For the reasons I have said, I did not have time to read
14all of your books. However, as I say in the report, I am
15quite satisfied on the basis of what I have read that
16reading more would only lead to the same kind of
17conclusions that I have drawn from what I have read.
18 Q. [Mr Irving]     You comment on page 28 at the end of the first paragraph
19on my website?
20 A. [Professor Richard John Evans]     Yes.
21 Q. [Mr Irving]     You say that it contains materials by myself or by people
22who are congenial to me and views that are congenial to
23me. Is that a fair description?
24 A. [Professor Richard John Evans]     Where do I say this?
25 Q. [Mr Irving]     At the end of the first paragraph on page 28: "This is
26constantly changing", you say, "but it includes lengthy

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 1documents and analyses produced or reproduced by Irving
 2himself as well as by others whose views are congenial."
 3In other words, what are you implying is I just have a
 4gallery of claqueur?
 5 A. [Professor Richard John Evans]     No, not at all, Mr Irving. This is a section in which
 6I am trying to outline the availability of documentation
 7on which it is possible to base an assessment of your
 9 Q. [Mr Irving]     Are you not familiar with ----
10 A. [Professor Richard John Evans]     I am saying that simply because, therefore, it is possible
11to take this into account. That is all I am saying there.
12 Q. [Mr Irving]     Are you not familiar with the fact that if you go to my
13website you will find not only documents to support my
14cases, such as they are, but also opposing documents
15fairly and prominently displayed, and that I have included
16links to all the hostile websites in the manner which is
17now part of the courtesy and etiquette of the internet?
18 A. [Professor Richard John Evans]     Yes, and you include daily transcripts of this entire
19proceedings and indeed a copy of my own report.
20 Q. [Mr Irving]     I have made it available.
21 A. [Professor Richard John Evans]     But that is not the point I am trying to make here. I am
22simply trying to outline the fact that there is an
23enormous amount of material which was available to me in
24writing this report.
25 Q. [Mr Irving]     But you are not trying to make the point ----
26 A. [Professor Richard John Evans]     

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