Irving v. Lipstadt

Transcripts

Holocaust Denial on Trial, Trial Transcripts, Day 18: Electronic Edition

Pages 126 - 130 of 181

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 1 A. [Professor Richard John Evans]     No, that is not true at all. That is why I read the
 2sentence out. I said "either the time or the expertise".
 3 Q. [Mr Irving]     To see through me, is that what ----
 4 A. [Professor Richard John Evans]     To uncover -- I do not want to read it all over again,
 5Mr Irving.
 6 Q. [Mr Irving]     This list of ignorant reviewers and listeners and readers
 7of my books, does it include people Captain Stephen
 8Roskill, the official Naval historian?
 9 A. [Professor Richard John Evans]     I did not describe him as ignorant, Mr Irving.
10 Q. [Mr Irving]     Well, you said they did not have the time or the
11expertise.
12 A. [Professor Richard John Evans]     I said they lacked either the time or the expertise. And
13anyone who has been involved in reviewing books knows
14that, particularly if you are reviewing for a daily or
15Sunday newspaper, you have a very tight deadline to meet
16and you do not have the time to go back to the archives
17and check everything out.
18 Q. [Mr Irving]     You have reviewed books for the Jewish Chronicle, have you
19not?
20 A. [Professor Richard John Evans]     I have reviewed books for the Sunday Telegraph, I have
21reviewed books ----
22 Q. [Mr Irving]     Answer my question. You have reviewed books for the
23Jewish Chronicle?
24 A. [Professor Richard John Evans]     I have indeed reviewed books for the Jewish Chronicle.
25 Q. [Mr Irving]     So you are familiar with the fact that they do not have
26enough time, when you are reviewing books, this is where

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 1your expertise there comes from?
 2 A. [Professor Richard John Evans]     I said you do not have enough time to go back to the
 3archives and the original sources to check the statements,
 4and also, as I go on in the report to say, that, normally
 5speaking, reviewers of academic, scholarly and non-fiction
 6works generally, unless they have reasons to suppose
 7otherwise, make the basic assumption that the author is
 8honest and reporting honestly what he or she finds.
 9 Q. [Mr Irving]     Knows what he is talking about. Well, that is the
10assumption that we are making in this court about you too,
11is it not, really, that you are not prejudiced or biased
12or that you have no private animosities towards anyone?
13 A. [Professor Richard John Evans]     I am glad you think so.
14 Q. [Mr Irving]     Yes, it is an assumption we all make. But now can I come
15back to my question, which is that these ignorant
16reviewers and listeners, for whatever reason, do they
17include people like Captain Stephen Roskill, the official
18Naval historian?
19 A. [Professor Richard John Evans]     I do not describe them as "ignorant", Mr Irving. I say
20they lack either the time or the expertise -- one or the
21other.
22 Q. [Mr Irving]     Professor AJP Taylor, would that include him?
23 A. [Professor Richard John Evans]     He was not a Professor, but, aside from that, I think he
24is one of the historians who ----
25 Q. [Mr Irving]     Professor Hugh Trevor Roper, would you include him in that
26kind of wayward, negligent category, a reviewer?

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 1 A. [Professor Richard John Evans]     As I go on to say, the ----
 2 Q. [Mr Irving]     But we are going to go on to the next two names you have
 3mention in a minute, but let us deal with ---
 4 A. [Professor Richard John Evans]     You have mentioned.
 5 Q. [Mr Irving]     --- this little catalogue of experts who have, apparently,
 6totally negligently spoken and written highly of my works.
 7 A. [Professor Richard John Evans]     Well, let me go on to say that in dealing with the
 8reviewers of your work, I try to make a distinction
 9between journalists, on the one hand, who maybe accept it
10but clearly do not know an awful lot about the subject
11----
12 Q. [Mr Irving]     Can I mention some more names? And
13 A. [Professor Richard John Evans]     --- and historians with a general kind of expertise, but
14not specific knowledge of the sources ----
15 Q. [Mr Irving]     Would Hans Monson have had ----
16 A. [Professor Richard John Evans]     --- and then historians with a specific expertise in the
17source materials on which you base your work ----
18 Q. [Mr Irving]     Would Hans Monson ----
19 A. [Professor Richard John Evans]     --- and it is the last ----
20 MR JUSTICE GRAY:     Mr Irving, I think, if I may say so, can I
21try to help you in this way so that we can move on? I am
22well aware that there have been quite a large number of
23distinguished academics who have paid tribute to your work
24as a military historian.
25 MR IRVING:     Until comparatively recently, my Lord.
26 MR JUSTICE GRAY:     Well, leave that on one side.

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 1 MR IRVING:     Well, after the 1988 watershed.
 2 MR JUSTICE GRAY:     Does it really help to fire these names at
 3Professor Evans? I do not think it does. It does not
 4help me.
 5 MR IRVING:     Do I not have a right to destroy his expert
 6report?
 7 MR JUSTICE GRAY:     Yes, you do, but I would rather you did it by
 8taking the particular criticisms that he makes of you and
 9try to destroy them, rather than deal with it in a rather
10indirect fashion.
11 MR IRVING:     Well, can we move on to the two names you
12mentioned, Professor Broszat, we have mentioned him
13briefly. I am not going to go further into him. You
14mentioned a second name there, Charles Sydnor?
15 A. [Professor Richard John Evans]     Yes.
16 Q. [Mr Irving]     Are you referring to the review he wrote in a journal
17called, I think, European ----
18 A. [Professor Richard John Evans]     "Central European History".
19 Q. [Mr Irving]     "Central European History".
20 A. [Professor Richard John Evans]     Indeed.
21 Q. [Mr Irving]     Have you compared that with the original article by Martin
22Broszat and have you seen that one is purely derivative
23from the other?
24 A. [Professor Richard John Evans]     I do not think it is purely little derivative. I think
25Sydnor had his own -- well, let me say two things. First
26of all, I think it is true that Broszat provided, not only

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 1Sydnor but also Trevor-Roper with a number of the
 2criticisms that they made of your work, but I do think
 3Sydnor does go beyond that. He is a man who has a
 4particular expertise on the SS and, indeed, he did have
 5research assistants and research grants to write his
 6review.
 7 Q. [Mr Irving]     To write his review?
 8 A. [Professor Richard John Evans]     Yes.
 9 Q. [Mr Irving]     Very nice.
10 A. [Professor Richard John Evans]     He acknowledges that in his footnote.
11 Q. [Mr Irving]     But it is very largely derivative from Professor Broszat
12in the way that I have suggested?
13 MR JUSTICE GRAY:     Well, Mr Irving, come on. Let us move on to
14the criticisms that are made by Professor Evans against
15you, rather than discussing whether one other author's
16work is derivative from another.
17 MR RAMPTON:     My Lord, two or three pages later we find
18Professor Evans saying, "Mr Irving gives no example of
19where writers copy what each other write", and that
20pre-empts that particular question, so I will not ask it.
21 MR JUSTICE GRAY:     Yes.
22 MR IRVING:     Will you go now to the bottom of page 21?
23 A. [Professor Richard John Evans]     Well, let me just make a point there, that I am not aware
24of anything you have written that says that Sydnor copied
25what he wrote from Broszat.
26 Q. [Mr Irving]     

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