Irving v. Lipstadt


Holocaust Denial on Trial, Trial Transcripts, Day 18: Electronic Edition

Pages 111 - 115 of 181

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 1 Q. [Mr Irving]     I think we have seen this morning and from a number of
 2your remarks that you dislike what I write, you dislike
 3what I stand for, you dislike what you perceive my views
 4to be. Is this correct?
 5 A. [Professor Richard John Evans]     I do not have any person feelings at all. I was simply
 6asked to write a report, which I have done, about your
 7writings and speeches.
 8 Q. [Mr Irving]     Well ----
 9 A. [Professor Richard John Evans]     I have tried to be as objective as possible.
10 Q. [Mr Irving]     Yes of course.
11 A. [Professor Richard John Evans]     And to leave any personal feelings I might possibly have
12out of it.
13 Q. [Mr Irving]     There are a number of remarks which are now a matter of
14record on this morning's transcript, which indicate that
15you hold strong personal views which are antipathetic
16towards me.
17 A. [Professor Richard John Evans]     Such as?
18 Q. [Mr Irving]     Well, they are a matter of record and I am sure that the
19court is familiar with them and this is why there was a
20rather astonished chuckle when you said that you held no
21views about me from those who had been listening to you
22this morning. You are aware of the fact of course, having
23written an expert report, that you have a duty to
25 A. [Professor Richard John Evans]     Absolutely. That is described in the last paragraph of my

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 1 Q. [Mr Irving]     Precisely. I was beginning to express astonishment of
 2that fact and that is why I asked the question because
 3I had the impression from this morning's answers to the
 4questions that you were averse to answering questions and
 5that you held something bordering between distaste and
 6loathing towards me and the books I write or the views
 7that you perceive me to hold?
 8 A. [Professor Richard John Evans]     Not at all. But it is the fact that I do find it very
 9difficult to answer questions about reports written by
10other people. I am here to answer questions about my own
12 Q. [Mr Irving]     You say that, when you went to the British Museum Reading
13Room, you asked for a copy of my book Hitler's War, and it
14was not in the public shelves. Is that correct?
15 A. [Professor Richard John Evans]     No. It was on the public shelves.
16 Q. [Mr Irving]     It was on the public shelves?
17 A. [Professor Richard John Evans]     Well, I mean as I say, it was available to everybody who
18had access to the British library.
19 Q. [Mr Irving]     I remind you of your words?
20 A. [Professor Richard John Evans]     That is the new British Library.
21 Q. [Mr Irving]     I remind you of your words in your report where you say
22that the 1991 edition of Hitler's War can only be read at
23the desk in the Rare Books Room. What justification did
24they offer for that?
25 A. [Professor Richard John Evans]     Well, none at all. I am not responsible for their
26classification. I have to say that, when I asked to read

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 1it, the library assistant in a somewhat astonished manner
 2said to me that it had to be read on the desk reserved for
 4 MR JUSTICE GRAY:     What is the relevance of that to your report?
 5 A. [Professor Richard John Evans]     I say it in my report.
 6 MR IRVING:     Page 15 of his report, my Lord, paragraph 154.
 7I am not relying on the pornography aspect, my Lord, as
 8your Lordship will appreciate.
 9 A. [Professor Richard John Evans]     It is an extremely minor and peripheral point. I am not
10suggesting for a moment that it was pornographic, but it
11is a matter of fact that, when I consulted it, that is
12where I had to read it.
13 Q. [Mr Irving]     Do you infer from that rather curious episode that what
14has been a very widely reviewed and widely praised work of
15history should have been placed by the museum in a
16reserved section where it can only be read with special
17application. Could that possibly be the result of some
18kind of campaign or endeavour by third parties, do you
20 A. [Professor Richard John Evans]     Let me say first of all that I do not think that your
211991 -- correct me if I am wrong -- edition of Hitler's
22War has been widely reviewed and widely praised.
23Secondly, I have no idea why I had to read it on that
24particular desk. Let me say if it helps you ----
25 MR JUSTICE GRAY:     I am not bothered about that at all,
26Professor. I am just puzzled why you included it in your

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 2 A. [Professor Richard John Evans]     Little bit of light relief, my Lord, to be honest.
 3I thought it was a minor detail that struck me as being
 4rather odd, that I just put in to make the report a little
 5bit more readable. I do not attach any weight or
 6importance to it. If it helps you at all, I really do not
 7understand why they have done it. I cannot speculate on
 8why they have done it. It did not seem to me worth
 9pursuing the matter. I could read it. Anybody can read
10it. It is not restricted.
11 MR IRVING:     You appreciate that it must have taken an objective
12action by someone, a positive step by someone, to
13recommend that the book should be taken from the normal
14shelves and placed into a reserved limited access section?
15 A. [Professor Richard John Evans]     It is not really limited access, to be honest. It is just
16that you have to read it in a certain place. My
17experience of the British Library's policy on these
18matters is somewhat haphazard. It is not terribly
20 Q. [Mr Irving]     Do you have page 15?
21 MR JUSTICE GRAY:     I have read it.
22 A. [Professor Richard John Evans]     I suggest that, if you wish to pursue this, you should do
23so with the British Library.
24 MR JUSTICE GRAY:     I think we have pursued it as far as it is
25worth pursuing.
26 MR IRVING:     I am going to pursue it to the next sentence, my

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 1Lord, which is: "Secondly, Irving has published a number
 2of articles mainly in the Journal of Historical Review".
 3Do you still stand by that statement?
 4 A. [Professor Richard John Evans]     Yes. That follows on from the material on which this
 5report is based, consisting in the first place of Irving's
 6published books.
 7 Q. [Mr Irving]     Are you aware that I have not published one article in the
 8Journal of Historical Review?
 9 A. [Professor Richard John Evans]     I am sorry, Mr Irving. Your journals are widely available
10in the Journal of Historical Review. I have read the
11Journal of Historical Review and there are many articles
12of yours there.
13 Q. [Mr Irving]     Are you referring to transcripts of talks that I have
14delivered which have then been transcribed by
15the Institute and then published?
16 A. [Professor Richard John Evans]     They are there as articles, indeed, yes.
17 MR RAMPTON:     I was just saying to my junior that, if this line
18of cross-examination continues without Mr Irving's
19revealing to the witness the full extent of the way in
20which those articles are published in the Journal of
21Historical Review, I am going to intervene.
22 MR IRVING:     I think that my question, as it was put, was quite
23proper, my Lord.
24 MR JUSTICE GRAY:     So do I, and re-examination is always an
25opportunity to follow up these things.
26 MR IRVING:     

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