Irving v. Lipstadt

Transcripts

Holocaust Denial on Trial, Trial Transcripts, Day 14: Electronic Edition

Pages 121 - 125 of 175

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    That may well be, but I repeat what I say. 99 per cent of
 1still in. This is no doubt the reason why your expert was
 2unable to find the slightest reference to this
 3organisation in my private diaries.
 4 Q. [Mr Rampton]     Do you remember speaking at the Best Western Hotel in
 5Tampa on July 25th 1998?
 6 A. [Mr Irving]     I remember speaking at the Best Western Hotel in Tampa,
 7yes, but I do not know what the date was.
 8 Q. [Mr Rampton]     I am just going to hold it up. This is a flier, poster or
 9leaflet for your talk. Do you recognize it?
10 A. [Mr Irving]     No. I have not seen that. It would not have been sent to
11me for obvious reasons.
12 Q. [Mr Rampton]     It says: "Banned. World famous British historian banned
13for publishing politically incorrect views about the
14Holocaust".
15 A. [Mr Irving]     Can you tell me where I find it in the bundle, please?
16 Q. [Mr Rampton]     It is one of these files, trial bundle C, tab 2, page 78.
17Mr Irving, there is a witness statement in tab 2 which is
18that of the Defendants' witness Rebecca Gutman.
19 A. [Mr Irving]     Who we are not going to be able to cross-examine, I take
20it?
21 Q. [Mr Rampton]     No, you are certainly not. I am only interested in
22pictures of you, Mr Irving, and the stuff that you know
23about?
24 A. [Mr Irving]     I am talking about my coming back. If this witness is not
25presenting herself for cross-examination, then the court
26is entitled to take what view of her evidence it wishes.

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 1 Q. [Mr Rampton]     Of course we know that, Mr Irving. Not only that, you
 2should know that you are entitled to introduce by the same
 3method material which might be apt to discredit her
 4testimony.
 5 A. [Mr Irving]     I am not the one who is defending this case. You are the
 6one defending this case. I remind you that I am the
 7Claimant in this action and you are the Defendants, not
 8other way round.
 9 MR JUSTICE GRAY:     On we go.
10 MR RAMPTON:     Thank you, Mr Irving. I think his Lordship
11probably knows that. You can be sure that I do.
12Mr Irving, will you look at that poster?
13 A. [Mr Irving]     Tab 2.
14 Q. [Mr Rampton]     Page 78 on the right-hand side of the page in the stamp.
15 A. [Mr Irving]     C2.
16 Q. [Mr Rampton]     Mine has just got C on it.
17 A. [Mr Irving]     This appears to be a leaflet handed out in the University
18of Southern Florida, University of Tampa.
19 Q. [Mr Rampton]     Best Western Hotel, 820 East Bush Boulevard, Tampa. That
20is a regular venue for your attendances at the National
21Alliances meetings, is it not, Mr Irving?
22 A. [Mr Irving]     I do not think I have ever spoken there again. I may be
23wrong.
24 Q. [Mr Rampton]     This is 1998.
25 A. [Mr Irving]     There is no year on this document.
26 Q. [Mr Rampton]     No, no, but there is in Miss Gutman's statement. This is

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 1where she picked it up, and when she picked it up she
 2reads in paragraph 3 as follows: "On or around mid July
 31998 the AJC (whatever that is) South West Florida
 4Chapter, received a flier ... advertising a lecture to be
 5given by Mr Irving on 25th July 1998 at the Best Western
 6Hotel (address), this flier is attached".
 7 A. [Mr Irving]     The AJC is the American Jewish Committee, is that
 8correct?
 9 Q. [Mr Rampton]     I hope so, yes. Anyhow, it turns out it is another
10National Alliance meeting.
11 A. [Mr Irving]     She says, "Although the flier made no mention of the
12National Alliance, the contact telephone number given was
13the number listed for the national office and the National
14Alliance", and I of course would have known that, would I?
15 Q. [Mr Rampton]     You would, Mr Irving, would you not, if you were pictured
16on the rostrum, podium or platform with a National
17Alliance banner beside you?
18 A. [Mr Irving]     How on earth I would not what National Alliance banner
19looks like.
20 MR JUSTICE GRAY:     Let us have a look at it. Tell us where it
21is.
22 A. [Mr Irving]     Does it say National Alliance or something?
23 MR RAMPTON:     As far as I am told. I have never seen it. Let
24us look at it.
25 (Video was played)?
26 A. [Mr Irving]     It has also got David Irving posters behind.

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 1 Q. [Mr Rampton]     Yes.
 2 A. [Mr Irving]     So what is the significance of the CND banner?
 3 Q. [Mr Rampton]     CND? I thought you said National Alliance.
 4 (Video played)?
 5 A. [Mr Irving]     It looked like the CND emblem to me.
 6 Q. [Mr Rampton]     No, they are not?
 7 A. [Mr Irving]     Is that not the CND emblem?
 8 Q. [Mr Rampton]     Mr Irving, if you would stop speaking for a moment,
 9I could try and watch the picture.
10 Q. [Mr Rampton]     I see. That is what Mr Irving calls a CND banner.
11 A. [Mr Irving]     If I could see it from where I was standing, which is
12highly unlikely, if you look at the way the hall is laid
13out, I would have seen it sideways and I would have
14thought either that is a tree or a CND banner or
15something, but certainly the words and the banner would
16have meant nothing whatsoever to me. There is no reason
17why they should have.
18 Q. [Mr Rampton]     This is the eighth of eight meetings of this body that you
19had been to.
20 A. [Mr Irving]     What is the evidence for that.
21 MR JUSTICE GRAY:     Is it true?
22 A. [Mr Irving]     What?
23 Q. [Mr Justice Gray]     Have you been to eight meetings of the National Alliance?
24 A. [Mr Irving]     No, my Lord. Of the National Alliance, not. I have
25spoken across the United States possibly 50 or 60 times a
26year.

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 1 MR RAMPTON:     That is one of them, is it not?
 2 A. [Mr Irving]     Well, you have yet to produce any evidence that I have
 3known that I am speaking in a National Alliance meeting
 4and, if it is not in my private diary, which is the
 5obvious place to look for that evidence, at a time when no
 6legal action was contemplated, then quite clearly I had
 7not the slightest notion what the National Alliance was.
 8 Q. [Mr Rampton]     Mr Irving, in 1995 the man introduces you proudly on
 9behalf of the National Alliance and National Vanguard
10Books.
11 A. [Mr Irving]     Why should that have stuck in my memory, do you think?
12 Q. [Mr Rampton]     Because you are tailed by another man who speaks about the
13National Alliance. You go back again at least in 1998.
14 A. [Mr Irving]     Excuse me.
15 Q. [Mr Rampton]     You go back again in 1998 and you speak from a rostrum
16with a prominent National Alliance banner beside you.
17 A. [Mr Irving]     If you could see where this prominent banner is, it is
18either on a back wall or on a side wall where no doubt
19I cannot see it.
20 Q. [Mr Rampton]     How did you get into the room, Mr Irving? Did somebody
21let you in?
22 A. [Mr Irving]     So you imagine I go into a room as the speaker and I say,
23before I just go up to the rostrum I am just going to have
24a look around all the walls to see what is on display here
25and oh, by the way, what is that banner over there?
26 Q. [Mr Rampton]     Who put up the pictures of you behind you?

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