Irving v. Lipstadt

Transcripts

Holocaust Denial on Trial, Trial Transcripts, Day 12: Electronic Edition

Pages 26 - 30 of 154

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    I am sorry, that is a misapprehension. I fall
 1said is true. Mr Peter Millar helps to prove it.
 2 MR JUSTICE GRAY:     If it is remaining an issue -- I just had an
 3idea that it would be possible and obviously desirable to
 4maybe have some admitted facts with a view to reducing the
 5ambit of the oral evidence.
 6 MR RAMPTON:     There is an admission by Mr Irving in writing
 7already. If we can get him by writing to him to admit
 8that what Mr Peter Millar says in his witness statement is
 9correct, then we do not need to call Mr Millar.
10 MR JUSTICE GRAY:     This is the sort of thing I had in mind. It
11is only a suggestion, obviously.
12Yes, Mr Irving, would you like to go back into
13the witness box?
14 < MR DAVID IRVING, recalled.
15< Cross-Examined by MR RAMPTON, QC.
16 MR RAMPTON:     Mr Irving, there is one thing I would like to pick
17up from Auschwitz, which is now more or less a closed
18book, which arose during the course of your
19cross-examination of Professor van Pelt. Do you remember
20the radio signal of 15th September 1942 ordering a car
21from Auschwitz to Lodsh?
22 A. [Mr Irving]     With the feldofen, yes.
23 Q. [Mr Rampton]     Yes.
24 Q. [Mr Rampton]     Do you remember that you produced a translation in court
25which translated the German word feldofen as field
26kitchens?

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 1 A. [Mr Irving]     Yes.
 2 Q. [Mr Rampton]     His Lordship drew your attention to that translation or,
 3one might say, mistranslation.
 4 A. [Mr Irving]     No. His Lord asked who made the translation.
 5 Q. [Mr Rampton]     You said you did.
 6 A. [Mr Irving]     Yes.
 7 Q. [Mr Rampton]     You said that you made it at 2 o'clock that morning, and
 8that there was an element of stress, thus accounting for
 9mistranslation?
10 A. [Mr Irving]     Yes.
11 Q. [Mr Rampton]     Could I ask you to look at a piece of paper, please?
12(Same handed) Do you recognize that piece of paper?
13 A. [Mr Irving]     Yes.
14 Q. [Mr Rampton]     What is it?
15 A. [Mr Irving]     It is from my web site, yes.
16 Q. [Mr Rampton]     Yes. Despite what you told his Lordship about having that
17done that mistranslation under stress at 2 o'clock in the
18morning the same day, that has been on your web site since
19at least 24th November last year.
20 A. [Mr Irving]     This is true. However, what I said is also true.
21I re-translated it that morning. This was presumably put
22on my web site a year and a half ago so, rather than go to
23the web site to find out what translation I used for two
24and a half lines a year and a half ago, I just
25re-translated it.
26 Q. [Mr Rampton]     No, Mr Irving. It was a repetition of a deliberate

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 1mistranslation that you had already put on your web site,
 2was it not?
 3 A. [Mr Irving]     I strongly resist the phrase "deliberate mistranslation."
 4In fact, I have had e-mails from Germans all over the
 5world who have read my web site within the last 24 hours
 6who said that the translation "field kitchens" for
 7"Feldofen" is entirely acceptable and intelligable. The
 8word "ofen" is a stove as in a kitchen stove and, without
 9knowing what the background was of the document, it was an
10entirely plausible translation.
11 Q. [Mr Rampton]     Have you had a chance to consider that report from Zamoysk
12of 5th May 1943? No sorry, wrong date, 16th December 1942
13that you said you wanted time to think about?
14 MR JUSTICE GRAY:     Can you remind me what that was about, Mr
15Rampton?
16 MR RAMPTON:     It relates to a transport of 644 Poles to
17Auschwitz.
18 A. [Mr Irving]     My Lord, I was going to make a submission about that
19report. You remember this is one which the Defendants
20received anonymously, so they say, on the very day before
21the ----
22 MR RAMPTON:     No "so they say", please, Mr Irving. If I tell
23the judge on instructions from my solicitor that we
24received it the day before, you can take it that it is
25true, unless you can prove otherwise.
26 A. [Mr Irving]     That is precisely what I said. They say they received it

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 1anonymously the day before.
 2 Q. [Mr Rampton]     It is the case.
 3 A. [Mr Irving]     That is not the point I am about to make, my Lord. May I
 4make a submission on that?
 5 MR JUSTICE GRAY:     I would like to see the document if you can
 6tell me where it is.
 7 MR RAMPTON:     I did hand it in together with the document about
 8keeping the plan secret.
 9 MR JUSTICE GRAY:     Where did it go?
10 MR RAMPTON:     It did not go anywhere, but I have a spare.
11 MR JUSTICE GRAY:     If it is loose, I probably still have it.
12 MR RAMPTON:     I am sorry, my Lord. It should go into K2 in due
13course. Let me pass it up. (Same handed).
14 MR JUSTICE GRAY:     Thank you. I have now found it, actually.
15 MR RAMPTON:     It can go into tab 4 of K2 in due course, my Lord.
16 MR JUSTICE GRAY:     If it is going ever to go there, can it not
17go there now?
18 MR RAMPTON:     Yes. My only question at the moment is whether
19Mr Irving is yet willing to be cross-examined about it.
20 MR JUSTICE GRAY:     Yes.
21 A. [Mr Irving]     I said that I wished to make a submission to his Lordship
22about this. My Lord, you know the circumstances in which
23this report was provided now? It has been supplied
24anonymously to the Defendants. Whether "anonymously"
25means it is anonymous in as much as we are not to be told
26the source?

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 1 MR RAMPTON:     That is right.
 2 A. [Mr Irving]     Or whether it is anonymous in as much as they know the
 3source but do not intend to identify it to me? There is a
 4substantial difference there, my Lord.
 5 MR RAMPTON:     Let me make it quite clear. We know who the source
 6is. I think I said actually when I produced the document,
 7the source did not wish to be identified.
 8 A. [Mr Irving]     This is an entirely unsatisfactory state of affairs, my
 9Lord. I should be placed in a position where, if
10necessary, if the source is within the jurisdiction, and
11I am sure Mr Rampton will be willing to tell us that, I
12should be put in a position where I can issue a subpoena
13duces tecum for the production of surrounding documents.
14 MR JUSTICE GRAY:     At the moment this is just a bit of
15typescript. I do not think myself that the identity of
16the person who actually physically handed it to the
17Defendants really is either here or there. Its
18authenticity is not going to, I think, depend on the
19identity of the person who made it available to the
20Defendants.
21 A. [Mr Irving]     It is clearly unsatisfactory that I should be supplied
22with an orphan stray document. We are required to rely on
23the assurances of the Defendants that it is authentic,
24that it comes from a proper provenance. I should be
25placed in a position, my Lord, where I can, if necessary,
26see the surrounding documents which we were informed by

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