Irving v. Lipstadt


Holocaust Denial on Trial, Trial Transcripts, Day 11: Electronic Edition

Pages 16 - 20 of 205

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    Now, I will point out, since I do not want to
 1to the screen?
 2 MR JUSTICE GRAY:     Of course, yes. Thank you very much.
 3 A. [Professor Robert Jan van Pelt]     My intention when the lights go out is very simple. It is
 4very simple. It is to make the blueprints intelligible.
 5There are a couple of things which are not in the
 6blueprint, two things which are not in the blueprint, but
 7we know from other sources, from correspondence which were
 8installed, and I will tell those when we go through.
 9     But there are already in the document which was
10submitted by Mr Irving, I already point them out, it is
11the drawing by Kate Mullen, my student, then submitted by
12Mr Irving in evidence to you and I will just point them
13out. These are the columns which are not in the
14blueprints. So that the first thing.
15     The second thing is the duct which was going to
16bring the hot air from the ventilator rooms to the gas
17chambers which is in the document of 6 March 1943.
18     So what I am going to do now is introduce a new
19set of images of which copies, I have given copies to
20Mr Rampton, and I will start with this one, very simple
21above ground incineration room, coke stores, space,
22administration offices, toilets, chimney, ventilator
23mounted, an original design for a fresh ventilator, not
24installed, but it was installed in crematorium (iii) and
25the dissection rooms.
26     That is difficult for me to actually focus to

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 1see whether it is really in focus or not. That would seem
 2to be in focus. If you tell me when it is not in focus?
 3 MR JUSTICE GRAY:     That is fine now.
 4 A. [Professor Robert Jan van Pelt]     Here are the dissection rooms. Morgue No. 1, gas chamber,
 5morgue No. 2 and an outside entrance with two staircases
 6that slide in between. Now I am going to the images which
 7were produced quite recently and -- can somebody mark, can
 8you focus for me? I cannot see. It is blurred. The
 9first ring, if you can control the first ring. OK. We
10are going back to this. I am going to make -- we are
11going -- the first thing I am going to do after just
12showing the kind of diagrams you are going to get later,
13I am first going to actually walk you through the
14building, around the building, in a reconstruction made on
15the basis of the blueprints. I am just going to flag a
16few major things. It is exactly the same perspective as
17we had before was included here and which we tried to make
18very clear is really the ventilation systems as they
20     The ventilation systems which are in green which
21is right here, above the incineration room and alongside
22the ceiling of the undressing room or the morgue No. 2 is
23indicated in green, and all of the systems came into this
24chimney. Then there was a second part of the ventilation
25system. This is called the entluftung system, a second
26system, and this is basically coming into the ceiling of

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 1morgue No. 1 and that is blue. So blue is bringing fresh
 2air in, green is taking foul air out and whatever is in
 3there, and that we will come later back to that would have
 4been that duct for hot air based -- reconstructed on the
 5basis really of two documents but no blueprint. Then here
 6the pink stuff, basically the funnels for going to the
 7chimney below the ground from the incinerators.
 8     If you want me to slow down at any given moment
 9or point out any detail, explain, please do so because I
10am going to walk through this. This is what the building
11as it would have been seen when one is at the end of the
12railway track. This is crematorium (ii), so, more or
13less, when you enter the compound in which the crematorium
14was placed. This is the main chimney with the place, the
15extension, the projections of the building in which the
16waste incinerator was originally projected, the
17incineration room sits more or less here. This is the
18coke store space, and the dissection rooms are there.
19     I am going to make actually two entries into the
20building, one along a staircase which is still there right
21here, and the staircase which goes to the basement and we
22really concentrate our presentation on the basement.
23Later we see here the kind of slightly high elevation of
24the underground morgue No. 2. We will enter the building
25through that entrance there, an entrance which was made in

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 1     We come closer to the building. Here we see the
 2staircase going down. This is an entry to the autopsy
 3rooms right there. We will actually go down the
 4staircase, and since it was very difficult to model that
 5situation, how to go down, the people who did it, two
 6architects, chose to show actually a kind of section of
 7the building. Here is the grate level. We have here the
 8underground morgue and we see actually the staircase going
 9down. Basically, the soil has been cut away with the
10entrance right here going into this little vestibule.
11 MR JUSTICE GRAY:     It is the undressing room on the right, is
13 A. [Professor Robert Jan van Pelt]     This will be then the undressing room and then the alleged
14gas chambers would be seen here, but you will see in more
15detail. You already can see here the two chimneys, the
16chimney of the beiluftung and the entluftung, of fresh air
17coming in, foul air coming out. We see in green where the
18systems are sitting. This is one of the pipes, that is
19one of the pipes, and this is then a probable
20reconstruction where that hot air would have come in, but
21again we do not have any blueprints for that.
22     Then one would have come into this little
23corridor and then into this large morgue No. 2. If one
24takes that entry right under the autopsy rooms, this is
25what one would have seen. But was here at the site, based
26on the drawing of Olaire, we knew there was a ventilation

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 1system in that thing, but we did not know how it looked
 2like because it is not in the blueprints. It was brought
 3in later. But Olaire depicted to, I have used Olaire as,
 4basically, the depiction of the undressing as room as the
 5basis for this thing.
 6     I am very sorry for the way the lighting has
 7been depicted. This has been, basically, standard 1999
 8kind of light fixtures, and this is certainly not how it
 9would have looked, the kind of way these light fixtures
10would have looked, but one gets a sense of how much light
11would have been in this room.
12     This is the later staircase. This is the
13staircase which goes to the outside which was constructed
14in late 1943.
15     What I am going to do now is actually go around
16the undressing room morgue No. 2, and take the second
17entrance which was the entrance which was used in the
18Hungarian action after it was constructed to get a more
19logical flow of people into the underground space. This
20entrance is also still there. You can see it. One would
21go down here and then enter in this underground space and,
22of course, see it then from a different perspective.
23     Now you come into this large underground space
24and now, of course, the ventilation is on the right side
25instead of on the left side.
26 MR IRVING:     

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