Irving v. Lipstadt


Holocaust Denial on Trial, Trial Transcripts, Day 4: Electronic Edition

Pages 206 - 207 of 207

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    It is in the press, the VB in the footnote that has been
 1printed in the press. It is a public statement, the party
 3 Q. [Mr Rampton]     It portrays a state of mind if you put these things
 4together, does it not?
 5 A. [Mr Irving]     Yes, but, on the other hand, I do emphasise this is a
 6public statement, so he is hardly going to out saying,
 7"yes, we are going to be liquidating all the Jews".
 8 Q. [Mr Rampton]     If we had but this one public statement to say that Hitler
 9intended physical annihilation of the Jews, "biologische
10vernichtung" but this one document, I would not be
11suggesting ----
12 A. [Mr Irving]     Excuse me, he does not say "biologische vernichtung" in
13this document.
14 Q. [Mr Rampton]     Wait, Mr Irving. Sometimes you do not listen.
15 A. [Mr Irving]     That is manipulation again.
16 Q. [Mr Rampton]     No, Mr Irving, you do not listen. I said if we had this
17document and this document alone to convict Hitler of an
18intention to achieve a biologische vernichtung, it would
19not be very good evidence. Do you see? I do not take
20documents one by one. I take the cumulative effect.
21 A. [Mr Irving]     This is part of your chain of documents.
22 Q. [Mr Rampton]     If you like, Mr Irving, yes.
23 A. [Mr Irving]     This chain against chain.
24 MR JUSTICE GRAY:     Is that a convenient moment? You have
25finished with that.
26 MR RAMPTON:     Yes, my Lord. I am going to come on to one or two

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 1more of these table talks. As I promised I would,
 2tomorrow morning.
 3 MR JUSTICE GRAY:     At some stage will you be looking, if not,
 4well, so be it, at the very early statements which are
 5pretty much the same.
 6 MR RAMPTON:     They are very much the same. They are all
 7collected in the first part of Longerich.
 8 MR JUSTICE GRAY:     That may be sufficient.
 9 MR RAMPTON:     That may be sufficient.
10 MR JUSTICE GRAY:     Mr Irving may want to comment on whether he
11takes those into account when he is evaluating Hitler's
13 MR RAMPTON:     If I may say so, that is very fair. Perhaps I
14ought to do that ----
15 MR JUSTICE GRAY:     Not this evening.
16 A. [Mr Irving]     I shall certainly be taking it into account in
17cross-examination of Longerich, which is probably the
18proper time to deal with them.
19 < (The witness withdrew).
20 MR JUSTICE GRAY:     10.30 tomorrow.
21 (The court adjourned until the following day)

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