إرفنج ضد ليبستدات


Holocaust Denial on Trial, Trial Transcripts, Day 31: Electronic Edition

Pages 31 - 33 of 33

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    If you want to make a closing speech and make
 1those submissions, rather than having odd points batted
 2around, because it is becoming unstructured and completely
 4 MR IRVING:     May I therefore now put to the court by way
 5submission the pages of this relating to Pamyat and
 6Hisbollah and those allegations?
 7 MR RAMPTON:     I really find this very difficult. I have not had
 8Mr Irving's submission long enough even to have had time
 9to look at it. If I had had, I might have had something
10to say about it. It is as simple as that. I do not think
11at this stage in the case it is satisfactory. I am
12leaving aside entirely the inconvenience to your
13Lordship. It is not satisfactory to the other party that
14the Claimant should suddenly stand up and make a row of
15oral submissions.
16 MR IRVING:     My Lord this submission is --
17 MR RAMPTON:     I am sorry, Mr Irving. If Mr Irving has serious
18submissions of fact and law to make about the defence and
19the way in which it is presented, then we should have them
20in writing and in time to respond to them. We have not
21had that opportunity.
22 MR JUSTICE GRAY:     Mr Rampton, I am sorry, I had expected that
23today you would be making your submissions, and you do not
24want to make them.
25 MR RAMPTON:     But they are all in here, both of law and of fact,
26in seriatim and in detail. I have nothing to add to what

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 1I wrote.
 2 MR JUSTICE GRAY:     Very well. Subject to either of you, I think
 3I will adjourn now and we will resume tomorrow, but
 4I would like to be absolutely clear in my own mind,
 5because there seems to have been some confusion about
 6today, what it is that is proposed to be done tomorrow.
 7Are we just having statements for public consumption? If
 8so, how long is each side likely to take and is there
 9going to be anything else dealt with tomorrow?
10 MR RAMPTON:     No. I have no present intention and, if I should
11be prompted to change that, of course, I will tell your
12Lordship. I have no present intention of making any
13submissions on the facts or the law that are not contained
14in this file. I therefore intend, with your Lordship's
15permission, to make a relatively short, maybe an hour and
16a half, two hour statement, setting out in summary what
17the Defendants' case is to show that what Professor
18Lipstadt wrote and Penguin published was in substance true
19in every single respect. That includes, for example, the
20Hitler portrait, which is a mere aspect of a wider
21allegation of Hitler partisanship. It includes the
22Stockholm meeting, which in its natural meaning is merely
23a particular example of a much wider picture, that is to
24say adherence to and association with right-wing,
25anti-Semitic principles and people.
26 MR IRVING:     My Lord, I must then ask you to advise me whether

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 1tomorrow I should make a separate submission on section 5
 2matters, or whether I can leave it bound up in my closing
 3statement as I do.
 4 MR JUSTICE GRAY:     I would leave it bound up if I were you, but
 5what are you proposing to do? Like Mr Rampton, speak for
 6an hour and a half, two hours?
 7 MR IRVING:     Based upon a cut down version of this text, I will
 8speak the same length as Mr Rampton.
 9 MR JUSTICE GRAY:     Very well. 10.30 tomorrow.
10 (The court adjourned until the following day).

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