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Holocaust Denial on Trial, Trial Transcripts, Day 30: Electronic Edition

Pages 31 - 33 of 33

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 1 MR JUSTICE GRAY:     Can I mention some things that perhaps should
 2be done before speeches. One is the Muller document.
 3 MR RAMPTON:     Yes, it is in hand. It is being dealt with by
 4Dr Longerich who is dealing directly with Munich and I
 5think also with Ludwigsburg where it is thought there is
 6another copy.
 7 MR JUSTICE GRAY:     Bearing in mind how quick Munich was to
 8respond on the other document, I would be hopeful that you
 9would be able to let me have something this week.
10 MR RAMPTON:     Yes. This is more problematical because they have
11been given the wrong file reference.
12 MR JUSTICE GRAY:     I thought they had tracked down the right
14 MR RAMPTON:     No, they know that it is the wrong one. They
15think they have the document but they have got to find
17 MR IRVING:     The problem with Munich is all that all that they
18have is a duplicated copy.
19 MR JUSTICE GRAY:     I know and that is why enquiries are being
20made of other archives, as I understand it. That is
21fine. Mr Rampton, the other thing, and it is the only
22thing that I think I need to ask you about is, I think you
23were going to give me a little bit help on what you might
24call the American Civil Evidence Act statements.
25 MR RAMPTON:     Yes. That is in charge of Miss Rogers. We are
26just down to the one now. The only one of the factual

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 1Civil Evidence Act witnesses we want to use is Rebecca
 2Guttmann about the National Alliance which I have already
 3cross-examined on. Your Lordship can have this. It has
 4file C, Rebecca Guttmann, and the rest can be chucked
 6 MR JUSTICE GRAY:     When you say the rest, can I be absolutely
 7clear about what can be chucked away?
 8 MR RAMPTON:     Everybody else in file C.
 9 MR JUSTICE GRAY:     File C or C1?
10 MR RAMPTON:     I call mine C. It has 425 pages.
11 MR JUSTICE GRAY:     Right.
12 MR RAMPTON:     And it is called Defendants Witness statements
13I should think.
14 MR JUSTICE GRAY:     I now seem to have back the file I swore
15blind I never had.
16 MR RAMPTON:     That is the one with the National Alliance
17material behind it.
18 MR IRVING:     When you say you are using Rebecca Guttmann's
19statement, does that mean to say you are also using all
20the appendices to it, or relying on them?
21 MR RAMPTON:     Yes.
22 MR JUSTICE GRAY:     That is what I was going to ask.
23 MR RAMPTON:     Yes, I rely on the material that she picked up at
24a National Alliance meeting in 1998 at which Mr Irving
25gave a speech.
26 MR JUSTICE GRAY:     Thank you.

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 1 MR RAMPTON:     To put it as neutrally as possible.
 2 MR JUSTICE GRAY:     Right. Is there anything else?
 3 MR RAMPTON:     No.
 4 MR JUSTICE GRAY:     Thank you. I think it was necessary to have
 5this fairly short session.
 6 MR RAMPTON:     Yes, it was.
 7 MR JUSTICE GRAY:     So 10.30 on Monday 13th.
 8 (The court adjourned until Monday, 13th March 2000).

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