Holocaust Denial on Trial, Trial Transcripts, Day 7: Electronic Edition

Pages 196 - 199 of 199

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    Mr Irving, I know you like your platform and I am
 1sure you want to get into the newspapers.
 2 A. [Mr Irving]     Can I now interrupt with the utmost respect, Mr Rampton,
 3if you move that sentence "if something didn't happen and
 4you don't even dignify it with a footnote", the beginning
 5of the following paragraph, then it becomes the famous
 6topic sentence of which I have spoken earlier giving the
 7topic of what follows in the following paragraph and that
 8is what it is. It has been put deliberately into the
 9paragraph above to make it look as though it is applying
10to the word "Holocaust".
11 Q. [Mr Rampton]     Now look, Mr Irving, we can go a lot quicker if you just
12occasionally ----
13 A. [Mr Irving]     I know you do not like these answers because of course it
14is a total answer to what you just said, Mr Rampton.
15 Q. [Mr Rampton]     That is a matter for his Lordship.
16 MR JUSTICE GRAY:     I heard the answer.
17 MR RAMPTON:     I think it is one of the worst answers you have
18given and that is saying something, Mr Irving.
19 MR JUSTICE GRAY:     That is comment and I think we will move on
20to the lower quote.
21 A. [Mr Irving]     Maybe his Lordship thinks differently but his Lordship has
22heard from me about topic sentences and that is a clear
23example of a topic.
24 MR RAMPTON:     If you will please stop talking for one minute I
25will show ----
26 A. [Mr Irving]     I was about to say the same to you.

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 1 Q. [Mr Rampton]     --- I will show you why it is such a rotten answer. Read
 2the first sentence of the last paragraph out loud.
 3 A. [Mr Irving]     "The biggest lie of the lot, the blood libel on the German
 4people, because people were hanged for this, as I call it,
 5is the lie that the Germans had factories of death with
 6gas chambers in which they liquidated millions of their
 7opponents."
 8 Q. [Mr Rampton]     Thank you very much, Mr Irving.
 9 MR JUSTICE GRAY:     I think that is a convenient point at which
10to break off.
11 MR RAMPTON:     I just want to take one more ----
12 A. [Mr Irving]     Truth is an absolute justification of that remark of
13course.
14 MR RAMPTON:     --- little line from this transcript.
15 MR JUSTICE GRAY:     I did not know there was any more. I am
16sorry.
17 MR RAMPTON:     There is one line on page 4.
18 MR JUSTICE GRAY:     Yes, page 6. Page 4. I think there is also
19something on page 6.
20 MR RAMPTON:     There is. I will just tell your Lordship which it
21is. I do not need to read that out yet again.
22 MR JUSTICE GRAY:     Page 4.
23 MR RAMPTON:     Page 4, the last line of the second paragraph, the
24last sentence: "So Fred Leuchter is poisoned for the whole
25of the Holocaust legend." The whole of the Holocaust
26legend. "The whole of the Holocaust legend" includes all

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 1alleged gas chambers anywhere in Nazi occupied Europe,
 2does it not?
 3 A. [Mr Irving]     He is bad news in the sense, as I said in the earlier
 4speech, once people have heard the data that Fred Leuchter
 5brought back, the forensic laboratory results, they go
 6away thinking, they begin asking awkward questions. That
 7is what is meant by that sentence and certainly no more.
 8 MR JUSTICE GRAY:     Yes.
 9 MR RAMPTON:     My Lord, if that is convenient, there is one
10matter I wish to raise.
11 MR JUSTICE GRAY:     Yes. I think it is. I am just looking to
12see whether we ought to deal with the passage I have
13marked on page 6.
14 MR RAMPTON:     Yes, very well.
15 MR JUSTICE GRAY:     It is about just below the lower hole punch.
16I have marked it presumably because you relied on it in
17your Summary of Case.
18 MR RAMPTON:     Yes. Page 6, last paragraph, Mr Irving. You say
19about five lines down: "If I can just dot the i's cross
20the t's to some of these details of details of details.
21He mentioned that after Fred Leuchter did his truly epoch
22making investigation of the gas chambers" plural "at
23Auschwitz, the forensic laboratory tests which yielded the
24extraordinary result which converted me, made me into a
25hardcore disbeliever."
26     Yes? I will read on if you like.

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 1 MR JUSTICE GRAY:     It does not affect the context, the sense of
 2it.
 3 MR RAMPTON:     It does not affect the context?
 4 A. [Mr Irving]     I do not think it takes it very much further, that
 5sentence, my Lord.
 6 MR RAMPTON:     You are by this date, are you not, November 28th
 71991, a hardcore disbeliever in the whole of the Holocaust
 8proposition?
 9 A. [Mr Irving]     You are incorrigible, Mr Rampton. We have just been
10talking about the gas chambers.
11 MR JUSTICE GRAY:     I think we will leave the evidence there
12because there may be some more
13 (Administrative Discussion)
14 MR JUSTICE GRAY:     Monday 10.30.
15 < (The witness stood down)
16(The Court adjourned until Monday, 24th January 2000)
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